God

music

Let's say the world has always existed and that no one created it. There are different levels - inanimate matter, sentient life, intelligence - and let's say the highest 'level' or state of existence is God. In this context God would simply exist, totally indifferent to the rest of the 'levels' of existence. It is up to those on the 'lower' levels to unite with IT so as to derive supreme bliss. So the usual questions - why doesn't god care about our suffering etc. - won't arise because God is not an active principle.

Is this acceptable in Buddhism?

vinlyn

My own personal view is that there is God, but that he is not a micro-manager.

music

vinlyn said:

My own personal view is that there is God, but that he is not a micro-manager.

But do you believe he is a creator?

vinlyn

I do.

If one morning I wake up and in the lot next to my townhouse there are piles of boards, shingles, nails, glass, bricks, bags of cement, etc., there still isn't a house. Someone has to put it all together. Same with the universe.

I know that proves nothing, but that's my personal view.

music

I respect your view, but by accepting god as creator we'll run into the Epicurean dilemma.

vinlyn

Yes, of course, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just staying my personal viewpoint.

misecmisc1

my view: only believing, assuming, thinking, logically analyzing to understand does not help - the only thing which matters is the direct experience of truth for ourselves, by ourselves, inside ourselves - unless the truth is directly experienced, all views are just views.

vinlyn

yup. just keep in mind that applies to quite a bit of Buddhist thinking, as well.

BhanteLucky

music said:

So the usual questions - why doesn't god care about our suffering etc. - won't arise because God is not an active principle.

Is this acceptable in Buddhism?

It is irrelevant to Buddhism. Those "usual questions" about our suffering, the problem of evil, etc, are questions for the Abrahamic religions to struggle with.

zombiegirl

I've had a weird journey with this. I once felt like on a very real level, God saved my life. But now I'm pretty unconcerned. I can't really say that I'm an atheist, because I can't say for sure that God doesn't exist, but I do know that it doesn't really matter in how I live my life. The thought that always tripped me up is: But who made God?

Tosh

vinlyn said:

Someone has to put it all together. Same with the universe.

But the problem with this is, who put together the God who put the Universe together?

zombiegirl said:

I've had a weird journey with this. I once felt like on a very real level, God saved my life.

I often hear this in A.A., "God saved me!", but most of my paternal family have died as a result of their alcoholism. What makes them (or me) so special that God saved them but allowed (or killed) my family?

Tsunamis happen and kill thousands of people a lot more worthy than myself.

If there is a God, He is called "Causes and Conditions". I think God is like "Mother Nature", and I'm sure Mother Nature isn't some deity; she's just a metaphor, only that we've forgotten that God is also a metaphor.

So when folk say, "It's God's will", the real meaning is that it's the result of causes and conditions.

vinlyn

^^

Of course. That's the problem with all religions. Things don't always fit together. The story is never quite all there. And sometimes what is there seems awfully convenient...you know, sort of like the movie mystery where something convenient happens to make the rest of the story work.

But as I said, I don't believe God is a micro-manager.

zombiegirl

@Tosh It's a really long story that I know I've told on here before (God, My Experience and How I Chose to Live). But what I mean to say is that I actually felt that God spoke to me and kept me from killing myself. This is the reason that it seems so strange to me now to be unconcerned/sometimes disbelieving in God. I can't deny what happened to me (I was absolutely convinced at the time), but at the same time, sometimes it's just easier to think it could be a trick of the mind. It really could be. I'm not a fool... I know how it sounds when you say that you feel like God actually spoke to you... I still can't really explain it and the issue has never really been resolved for me. I mostly just don't think about it. All that matters, I guess, is that after that moment, I never once questioned myself ever again. It did change my life. And for the record, God has been silent ever since... lol.

federica

music said:

Let's say the world has always existed and that no one created it. There are different levels - inanimate matter, sentient life, intelligence - and let's say the highest 'level' or state of existence is God. In this context God would simply exist, totally indifferent to the rest of the 'levels' of existence. It is up to those on the 'lower' levels to unite with IT so as to derive supreme bliss. So the usual questions - why doesn't god care about our suffering etc. - won't arise because God is not an active principle.

Is this acceptable in Buddhism?

@music,
If you read the Suttas, you will come across this one.

Check out number 4....

So the Buddha taught it doesn't matter, because as an imponderable, what matters more is your practice.
Therefore this is acceptable in Buddhism.

Try to do some research before asking imponderable questions.