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New Kadampa Tradition question....

KungaTashiKungaTashi
edited September 2006 in Buddhism Basics
... what do you think of this tradition? I have read many things about them on e-sangha but didn't see any threads here. When I move home to MA I planned on attending a center but after reading what I did on e-sangha I am re-evaluation that idea. Help and or opinions would be appreciated....

Comments

  • questZENerquestZENer Veteran
    edited September 2006
    LFA:

    I don't personally know anything about this group. However, I did see this article about 'Buddhist Cults' and NKT is mentioned. Sorry I can't provide more.
  • KungaTashiKungaTashi
    edited September 2006
    Thank you questZENer, that page helped out alot.
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited September 2006
    LFA,

    I've been warned about New Kadampa by a number of people. You're doing exactly the right thing to research the group so thoroughly. My opinion would be to stay away from them.
  • questZENerquestZENer Veteran
    edited September 2006
    My question is: what is "Dolgyal practice"? Perhaps Palzang-la can help answer this?

    Peace,
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Dorje Shugden (Wylie: rdo-rje shugs-ldan), "Powerful thunderbolt"; also known as Dhol-rgyal) is a relatively recent, but highly controversial deity within the complex pantheons of Himalayan Buddhism. Widely (but not universally) regarded by some as the wrathful spirit of a deceased lama, and by others as a wrathful aspect of Je Tsongkhapa and as such a fully enlightened being. He is primarily associated with two influential lamas: Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche of the Gelugpa (also Gelukpa) school of Tibet. Whilst Shugden has never been an official practice of the Gelug institution, or any other school of Tibetan Buddhism, it has formed part of the daily practice in many monastries, such as Gaden monastery in Mundgod, Karnataka where statue of Dorje Shugden in the main prayer hall was removed only after the Dalai Lama's statements in 1996.
    From Wikipedia.

    This on-going tension has reached new heights in the Tibetan exile context, where the Fourteenth Dalai Lama (Trijang Rinpoche was one of his teacher) started first to distance himself from Shugden and later he used his position as the political and religious head of Tibet to stop the ever growing influence of the worship of Shugden. Many of the opponents of Shugden stress out the sectarian and demonical character of that practice whereas the followers are convinced Shugden is a Buddha and can not be harmful in any way. Because the Shugden worship caused many disharmony among the different traditions (especially Nyingma and Gelug school) Shugden is seen by the present Dalai Lama and other high Buddhist authorities, like Namkai Norbu Rinpoche, as opposing to the interests of the Tibetan cause and Buddhist religious practice in general.

    The dispute developed international dimensions in the 1990s, when the Dalai Lama's statements against the practice of Shugden challenged the British-based New Kadampa Tradition to oppose him. They publicly accused the Dalai Lama of religious persecution and going against human rights. A huge media campaign was started by the so called Shugden Supporter Community (SSC) behind which NKT was the main force. These organisation tried to get the intervention of Amnesty International (AI). But however Amnesty International (AI) denied a need for it.

    In February of 1997, three anti-Shugden Tibetan Buddhist monks, including the Dalai Lama's close friend and confidant, seventy-year-old Lobsang Gyatso (the principal of the Institute of Buddhist Dialectics), were brutally murdered in Dharamsala, India, the Tibetan capital in exile. It is alleged that monks loyal to Shugden did the killing which was described as been ritualistic.
    From Answers.com.



    Try this link.

    And this one.

    Sorry for butting in, Quest, but I couldn't resist the temptation to do a little research. I have a lot of time on my hands...
  • questZENerquestZENer Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Thanks, Brigid! You're not butting in. Do you have an idea what it all means? I kind of get that Dolgyal is a diety but what's all this "after years of propitiating Dolgyal, HHDL thinks the practice is more harmful than beneficial"? I must be thick, but I don't get it.

    I do LOVE some of the expressions, like "mistaking the moustache for the mouth"...so great!
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited September 2006
    I don't get it either. It has something to do with the controversial practice of appeasing this deity Dolgyal. I guess when His Holiness publicly opposed the practice those who wanted to continue it got upset and tried to discredit HHDL etc. etc. and eventually this conflict led to murder. A very unsavory business indeed.
  • EjotyEjoty
    edited September 2006
    I guess I could be considered a member, as I go to once a week meditation classes at a satellite sangha.
    And I know that several of the other members here will agree with Brigid and to stay awy from them.
    But, like you I heard and read all about the cult and murder issues. So I went out and really read up on the problems.
    I have decided that even with those problems, it shouldn't change the fact that I am getting the help I need in understanding my mind and my spirituality.
    There is a saying that I have found to be real help when dealing with my quest of spirituality... "All Religions lead to the same place"... and with that in mind, I intend to use what I learn from whatever source and if some of it happens to be from the NKT then so be it. I know that if there ends up being something I disagree with, I'll move on.
    I hope I made sence.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Unlike many of the protectors who were adopted from indigenous shamanistic traditions, Dorje Shugden was an actual person who was later counted as a protector by the Gelugpas. The main problem with the propitiation of this particular protector is that one of his "functions" is to suppress other schools of Buddhism and boost the Gelugpa (or now the NKT). The Dalai Lama felt strongly that this was not appropriate in these times, so he instructed his students not to engage in this practice. It was Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's defiance of this request that set off the whole thing.

    Palzang
  • WillWill
    edited September 2006
    Palzang wrote:
    It was Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's defiance of this request that set off the whole thing.

    Palzang


    Not surprisingly "Geshe" Kelsang is not one. He was formally booted out of Sera-je monastery some years ago.

    At E-Sangha there is a long thread with much material on this group.
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited September 2006
    I'm surpised that Falun Gong and Aum are considered Buddhist cults...

    I'm even more surprised that there's a NKT lineage in Singapore...

    I'm guessing that I should keep my eyes more open... And I don't understand why should a Buddhist theocracy be considered a cult. Isn't the HHDL's government sort of one? It's not true that the cult in question may ban other religions...
  • jupitermadcatjupitermadcat
    True
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    http://www.newkadampatruth.org/

    http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/

    http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Condemmed-to-Silence.pdf
  • jupitermadcatjupitermadcat
    Thank you personally all that stuff they are fighting over doesn't interest me at the least I just want to learn about Buddhism and meditation and if they can honestly provide that I would check them out.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    As this thread originates in 2006, and much has been said since, either discuss the matter sensibly in a new thread, or research more recent discussions.
    The general consensus of opinion is learn all you can, but don't touch them with a bargepole.
This discussion has been closed.