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Race in relation to Karma and Social Status

edited September 2006 in Buddhism Today
I know that if you have lived good past lives, your future rebirths will be more comfortable: higher status, money, possessions, etc. In society today such privileged persons are white. Although wealthy minorities are by no means rare, it is usually the case that people in power and with money are white, it is a fact that if you are a white male you have special privileges in society brown people do not, (cops don't hassel you as much, able to get taxi's, earn more money, etc.) I was wondering what some opinions are on this phenomenon, because white people are usually more powerful in society and have a higher standard of living, does this mean that they were more awake, compassionate, giving, and loving in their past lives than say a Black or Mexican person from the same area? I myself am a Mexican American, and although I am quite privileged, I was raised in a middle-middle class family in suburban southern California, if I were not a Buddhist concerned with ending samsara, but merely practiced giving and compassion would I be reborn as lets say Tom Cruise’s white child? Also, do you think Paris Hilton was a compassionate and giving soul in her prior births? Was Bill Gates a very giving man in his past lives?

Just curious to what you guys think.

Comments

  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Among whites there are beggars as poor as all other races. I trust that some of their successes are karma accumulated in this life, not past - just as any other race might one day rise in power with globalisation (look for Indians, Chinese, Arabs). As for Hilton, I guess it's her dad's karma and it's just subjective. We never know how spiritually-happy she is though. Karma's a weird thing to say.
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited September 2006
    And I guess perhaps from your post, you might be weighing "good" karma in terms of material successes and social class. Let us look to our dear Gautama Buddha as an example - a handsome young prince with all he could ask for in the world... And still? Well I guess his karma paid off in terms of spiritual enlightenment though! Human experience is again subjective - I may love money but you may not!
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Good questions, BBR! They challenge the status quo and point up the deep racism of the 'white' world - as my non-white, Muslim friends are discovering daily.

    I would suggest that rebirth as a human does not mean rebirth within the same socio-historical context nor, except in some cases like the Tibetan tulkus, rebirth 'later' in the human-perceived chronology.
  • edited September 2006
    Keep in mind that in humanity, there really is only one race. No I'm not talking that Nazi BS, but race refers to our species as a whole. There are ethnicities who only differ in such superficial ways as skin pigmentation. That is why I find pride in your race, be it white, black, or other to be very silly.

    Anyway, I don't know what I will come back as, if we even do come back at all I mean. What we define as race though is just an evolutionary bi-product which has been twisted unfortunately for personal gain and excuses for some very heinous acts in history.
  • edited September 2006
    I know that if you have lived good past lives, your future rebirths will be more comfortable: higher status, money, possessions, etc.
    How do you know this? Religion, for the most part, is a societal construct meant to excuse the wealthy and powerful from accountability for their misdeeds. BS like this is an example of how something as relatively simple and practical as the teachings of the Buddha can be twisted into "just another religion."

    Seriously, what the Buddha taught was a means by which a normal human being could be awakened to the truth of existence, when you throw in endless rounds of reincarnation, as well as hierarchies based on the supposed merit of past lives, you exchange the simple and rational for the supernatural and unattainable.

    Notions such as "I'm white and middle class, therefore I must be higher along on my spiritual journey than some poor Mexican." this is folly to believe such a thing. It can, and has, been used to excuse terrible injustices, (the caste system in India, for example.) Also, awekening can be realized in a lifetime, once you relegate it to an unattainable goal to be achieved in another lifetime, well, you may as well give up and convert to Catholicism. I'm sorry, but this is a heinous way to think.
  • edited September 2006
    How do you know this? Religion, for the most part, is a societal construct meant to excuse the wealthy and powerful from accountability for their misdeeds. BS like this is an example of how something as relatively simple and practical as the teachings of the Buddha can be twisted into "just another religion."

    See I don't personally believe that karma is a factor of your ethnicity, I don't pretend to understand the way karma works. I was simply taught that if I myself wanted to be a wealthy person and be reborn as a wealthy person, I should practice charity. But it would be silly for me to be content with just worldy possesions because I know that wealth, race, the self, and this world are merely an illusion. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone out here actually believed that rich white people have a better grasp on the nature of reality more than lets say a black or mexican woman living in the ghetto.

    I know that the buddha did not approve of the caste system, which was why many conservatives of his time did not like his teachings. I also know that buddhism is not simply another religion. I was hoping for someone to bring up the casual role that culture and xenophobia have on ethnicity in relation to social class to explain such differences.
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited September 2006
    BBR now we're really gettin some meaty subjects!

    You raise some good issues. with karma etc. My take on it is like the old saying "If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt" simple cause and effect.

    If you are a Nazi involved in hate crimes-you are more likely to go to the gallows than me-straight forward.

    "People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" another saying about a similar thing, cause throwing stones, may , effect the breakage of windows. simple-no race/colour/creed difference, just cause and effect.

    cheers
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Xrayman wrote:
    BBR now we're really gettin some meaty subjects!

    You raise some good issues. with karma etc. My take on it is like the old saying "If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt" simple cause and effect.

    If you are a Nazi involved in hate crimes-you are more likely to go to the gallows than me-straight forward.

    "People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" another saying about a similar thing, cause throwing stones, may , effect the breakage of windows. simple-no race/colour/creed difference, just cause and effect.

    cheers


    This doesn't, however, address the really uncomfortable question of why bad things happen to good people!
  • edited September 2006
    This doesn't, however, address the really uncomfortable question of why bad things happen to good people!

    This question used to really bother me, but it doesn't much anymore. There is no reason really, it's all cause and affect and not necessarily the fault of the person the consequences fall to. I always found the question, "Why does this have to happen to me?" to be a very defeatist attitude. We can learn from our suffering. Both the deserved and undeserved.

    And also, we judge a particular outcome by it's immediate results rather than long term. Remember the story of the farmer and his foolish neighbor? "Who knows what is good or bad?"
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited September 2006
    Some of this depends on an interesting view: that "higher status, money, possessions, etc." are 'good' things. I understand it, because it is exactly what the cultural context supports. It is, however, not how I read Buddhist cosmogony. The Buddha appears to teach us that the second best possible outcome of living is rebirth as a human being. Just that: not as a 'good', 'successful' or 'happy' human but just a human being. There cannot be better than this, in samsara, because, despite the working of the First Noble Truth, it is only from a human life that we can escape the tedious round of rebirth.

    We can decide to believe or disbelieve in rebirth but we need to be careful to represent its tenets as presented rather than as yet another way of perpetuating judgment or criticism, let alone as a justification for discrimination on the grounds of alleged negative karma in prior lives.
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