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The Orthodox Church and Monasticism.
Jason
God EmperorArrakis Moderator
Everyone,
I tend to keep religious discussions separated because many lose their essence when taken out of context and compared with others that seem somewhat similar. Nevertheless, there are many religions, as well as religious teachers and texts, outside of Buddhism that I find extraordinary. Recently, I have been exploring the Orthodox Church, and in particular, the ways in which they approach monasticism. It began when I read an intriguing interview with Archimandrite Dionysios, and from there, I became extremely interested in learning more about this particular community and their beliefs and practices.
It seems that Hesychastic prayer, for example, bears a superficial resemblance with Buddhist meditation—specific body postures, deliberate breathing patterns, acquiring an inner stillness, ignoring the physical senses, et cetera. Gregory Palamas is said to have constantly prayed: "Enlighten my darkness.” Even so, there are enough differences between Buddhism and the Orthodox Church for me to keep them separated, however, that does not mean that I cannot explore them each on their own terms. If anyone has any experience with it, I would be more than happy to learn more.
Sincerely,
Jason
I tend to keep religious discussions separated because many lose their essence when taken out of context and compared with others that seem somewhat similar. Nevertheless, there are many religions, as well as religious teachers and texts, outside of Buddhism that I find extraordinary. Recently, I have been exploring the Orthodox Church, and in particular, the ways in which they approach monasticism. It began when I read an intriguing interview with Archimandrite Dionysios, and from there, I became extremely interested in learning more about this particular community and their beliefs and practices.
It seems that Hesychastic prayer, for example, bears a superficial resemblance with Buddhist meditation—specific body postures, deliberate breathing patterns, acquiring an inner stillness, ignoring the physical senses, et cetera. Gregory Palamas is said to have constantly prayed: "Enlighten my darkness.” Even so, there are enough differences between Buddhism and the Orthodox Church for me to keep them separated, however, that does not mean that I cannot explore them each on their own terms. If anyone has any experience with it, I would be more than happy to learn more.
Sincerely,
Jason
0
Comments
Palzang
There is a Greek Orthodox Church in Santa Cruz on Church Street, across the street from the public library. If you go there and ask someone to tell you about Mt. Athos in Greece, you might get something interesting.
Back in the day I had a painter friend in Santa Cruz named John Christiansen. He was from a Prostestant background and then studied and practiced Zen, while remaining a Christian. He became a History (of Religion) major at UCSC and did most of his work with Professor Noel Q. King, who I guess has long since retired. Anyway, John converted to Eastern Orthodox Christianity and joined the St. Herman of Alaska brotherhood as a monk in Northern Calilfornia at the New Valaam Monastery. Many years later I was milling around a bookstore in Westlake Village and saw a book by Fr. John Damascene (his name as a monk) which was about Lao Tzu`s concept of the Tao, comparing that, not too unfavourably, with the Christian notion of the Logos. I`d lost all contact with John by that point, but I was pleased to see he hadn`t entirely given up the idea that `paganism` might have something of value in it.
Palzang
Arctic-Stranger: Yeah, in the Eastern Orthodox Church they even have something similar to the idea of direct transmission of spiritual lineage from elder to disciple.
from here.
Palzang
Also, when I asked an Othodox priest why the Church insisted on using the Julian calender, he said, "We are just not sure this new one will really take."
Ha! :buck:
Palzang
Zen Master Seung Sahn in the "Compass Of Zen" states that even repeating "Coca Cola Coca Cola ..." over and over again can produce a one pointed mind. So maybe we are distracted by the forms different religions take.
Good Day ...
I remember watching the beadle at the Sacre Coeur in Paris. He would wait until some Protestant visitor was sitting on one of the chairs and praying in the "Protestant crouch" (leaning forward but not kneeling). He would come up behind them and tip the chair until they were pitched forward onto the prie-dieu which was set in front of each chair.
I also recall being at a Mass attended by General de Gaulle. While we were kneeling during the Canon, he was standing at attention all through it. Standing has become much more common as a sign of respect in church that hitherto; it has always been the custom during the proclamation of the Gospel.
Your mention of DeGaulle standing at attention during the service reminded me of a photo I saw once of him kissing a young boy on the top of his little blond head (you know, the politician kissing the baby type of thing). For some reason he also had his right hand on the boy's ear. Some wag had put a caption on the photo that said something like, "I can't seem to make this water fountain work!" I just about split a gut when I saw it. Well, it was a long time ago...
Palzang
A beadle is a caretaker. The French word is bedeau. The bedeaux at the Sacre Coeur wore splendid uniforms and were as self-important as the wonderful character Mr Bumble, the beadle in Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist.
Palzang
My task for much of the time I was a novice. A great aid to meditation, like working in the scullery. The bedeaux at the Sacre Coeur looked far too self-important to do an important job like that.
What`s the scullery? If that were a "k" instead of a "c" I`d think you were speaking of those rooms where they stack up old monks` skulls and bones, which is obviously a good place for meditation on impermanence.
All:
As One Sun Temple pointed out, Jason`s original post mentioned Hesychasm, the Eastern Orthodox Christian tradition of contemplation. I`d like to recommend a couple of books I`ve read on the subject, both by the same author, Archimandrite Sophrony. One is called His Life is Mine (the title more or less refers to the belief that the Divine Life of God is the life of the mystic practitioner) and the other is The Undistorted Image, which was republished in a two-volume edition under the titles A Monk of Mt. Athos (Vol. I) and Wisdom from Mt. Athos (Vol. II). These books offer a very clear picture of the doctine and practice of Hesychasm based on the life and teachings of Sophorny`s spiritual father, Silouan, a simple Russian peasant who went to live on Mt. Athos in Greece and, apparently, reached the highest (or deepest, depending on your metaphor) levels of spiritual attainment according to the Eastern Christian tradition: kenotic (self-emptying) humility and the vision of the Uncreated Light.
What`s the scullery? If that were a "k" instead of a "c" I`d think you were speaking of those rooms where they stack up old monks` skulls and bones, which is obviously a good place for meditation on impermanence.
All:
As One Sun Temple pointed out, Jason`s original post mentioned Hesychasm, the Eastern Orthodox Christian tradition of contemplation. I`d like to recommend a couple of books I`ve read on the subject, both by the same author, Archimandrite Sophrony. One is called His Life is Mine (the title more or less refers to the belief that the Divine Life of God is the life of the mystic practitioner) and the other is The Undistorted Image, which was republished in a two-volume edition under the titles A Monk of Mt. Athos (Vol. I) and Wisdom from Mt. Athos (Vol. II). These books offer a very clear picture of the doctine and practice of Hesychasm based on the life and teachings of Sophorny`s spiritual father, Silouan, a simple Russian peasant who went to live on Mt. Athos in Greece and, apparently, reached the highest (or deepest, depending on your metaphor) levels of spiritual attainment according to the Eastern Christian tradition: kenotic (self-emptying) humility and the vision of the Uncreated Light.
The scullery is the area of a kitchen where the pots and pans are cleaned. It is usually the least 'prestigious' jobs in a kitchen: dirty and hard on the hands.
Ignatius of Loyola's system of training novices divided the time in "experiments"h meant that we all had a month at each of the jobs to be done around the house. My month of scullery was wonderful (after an initial horrible moment when I threw away something I should have kept). The sink was in a small corner of the kitchen, facing a wall. During cooking and after each meal I would be standing there, up to my elbows in greasy water, scouring pad in hand. And few interruptions. I found it a perfect time to practise the "presence of God" and calmness of mind, even though I had yet to come across mindfulness meditation.
It's pretty difficult to stand long enough to do dishes or sweep the floor now but whenever I can, I do as much as I can, as slowly, carefully and mindfully as possible because it's a place where my mind is healthy, open and clear. It's a wonderful way to practice. The irony is that I sometimes get cravings to do those jobs. lol!!
I'm sure you know this. You may even have sung it in your church days:
[SIZE=+1]THE ELIXIR. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] TEACH me, my God and King,
In all things Thee to see,
And what I do in anything,
To do it as for Thee.
Not rudely, as a beast,
To run into action ;
But still to make Thee prepossest,
And give it his perfection.
A man that looks on glass,
On it may stay his eye,
Or, if he pleaseth, through it pass,
And then the heav'n espy.
All may of Thee partake ;
Nothing can be so mean
Which with his* tincture (for Thy sake)
Will not grow bright and clean.
A servant with this clause
Makes drudgery divine :
Who sweeps a room as for Thy laws,
Makes that and th' action fine.
This is the famous stone
That turneth all to gold ;
For that which God doth touch and own
Cannot for less be told.
(by George Herbert)
[/SIZE]
Palzang
Palzang,
So that's what "all the same taste" means! Thanks! I'm glad it's a powerful practice. Now I feel like cleaning the toilet or the cats' litter boxes.
Palzang