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Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero
Magwang
Veteran
I resisted watching any TV yesterday (9/11/2006), for the simple reason that I am trying to pace my intake of painful images surrounding this day in history. Not avoid or ignore 9/11, but I try to be more mindful in my observance of this event.
But last night I caved in and watched the PBS Frontline documentary Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero which explored the variety of religious experiences that happened on that day and continue.
And I'm glad I did. It got me re-evaluating my response this tragic event.
Monsignor Lorenzo Albacete said:
From the first moment I looked into that horror on Sept. 11, into that fireball, into that explosion of horror, I knew it. I knew it before anything was said about those who did it or why. I recognized an old companion. I recognized religion. Look, I am a priest for over 30 years. Religion is my life, it's my vocation, it's my existence. I'd give my life for it; I hope to have the courage. Therefore, I know it.
And I know, and recognized that day, that the same force, energy, sense, instinct, whatever, passion -- because religion can be a passion -- the same passion that motivates religious people to do great things is the same one that that day brought all that destruction. When they said that the people who did it did it in the name of God, I wasn't the slightest bit surprised. It only confirmed what I knew. I recognized it.
I recognized this thirst, this demand for the absolute. Because if you don't hang on to the unchanging, to the absolute, to that which cannot disappear, you might disappear. I recognized that this thirst for the never-ending, the permanent, the wonders of all things, this intolerance or fear of diversity, that which is different -- these are characteristics of religion. And I knew that that force could take you to do great things. But I knew that there was no greater and more destructive force on the surface of this earth than the religious passion.
Many people were interviewed with stories that ran from a profound affirmation of their faith to bitterness and anger at a god for abandoning them.
The stories are both uplifting and discouraging.
A minister who spoke at the Yankee Stadium memorial was charged by his peers for heresy for standing together on stage with other faiths, because that would put recognize the other religions - which is impossible because "we are the only true faith".
The only buddhist I saw was the Tricycle magazine editor Helen Tworkov, who said "...look at the planning that went into this, and then look at the lack of planning of the humanity and courage between strangers on that day. Where does that come from?"
Another man's most "hopeful" images was that of two strangers holding hands as they plummet 100 stories to the street. To him, that was the ultimate symbol of humanity's best atrributes.
I could go on quoting, but I recommend watching this.
Please post your comments below if you have seen this.
Magwang.
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Comments
One due to be shown tomorrow evening (13/09) will unfortunately focus on those who have attempted to profit from this disaster, or to take advantage of it...Insurance companies, Lawyers, and even three people who tried to defraud their insurance companies by putting claims in for deceased relatives when none existed.... Sad.
incidentally, I heard a snippet of Mr. Bush's speech (to my mind ill-advised and tactlessly timed....) during which he stated that -
"America did not ask for (or seek) this war...."
Too right, Mr. Bush. You did all of that on your lonesome.
Oh dear.
You're right..............America did not...........He did it all on his own.......and now look where we are..................how sad.
Palzang
The whole quinquennial memorial has seemed more political than anything else. I hold an unpopular view that it was disgusting and inhumane. Having spent so many years working with people (particularly police officers and ambulance personnel) who are suffering PTSD, I am concerned by the massive re-stimulation that may occur as a result of these ceremonies of ongoing pain rather than of closure and farewell. Having watched the whole event from just before the second aircraft hit the towers (having turned on CNN when I heard the first news early in the morning here), I suffered nightmares and the usual secondary traumatic effects. These soon cleared up but I had the old dream again three nights running this week! If I, a distant witness, dream of leaping from the tower, how much worse for those whose recovery is only just beginning.
And for the whole thing to be turned into another political rally is just disgusting.
Please share your personal view on the religious aspects of 9/11 the event (not the political fall-out).
Has it changed your view of humanity? Has it changed your view of "god" or other principle?
Simon, I agree the annual wound-opening ceremonies are not helping. I used to obsess about 9/11 until I realized it was not the right view or right mindfulness.
::
I started thinking that while the US mourned the loss of life and symbols, the "19" and their supporters hailed them as martyrs and celebrated them. While I was very troubled by the event, I couldn't help but see the "19" as people just like me. I felt genuine compassion for them.
Just then, a bird flew by quite near my head. I suddently shifted my perspective from being introspective to being attentive to the things around me. I looked around at the mountains in the distance, the trees moving in the wind, and the bird sitting on the branch. I had a vision of that exact spot one thousand years previous, two thousand, ten thousand. I realized that things change. However, I realized that the mountains have witnessed countless atrociousities. I realized that trees will blow in the wind amidst the worst attacks. I realized that birds still fly and perch on tree branches in dangerous times.
All my troubled thoughts about the nature of mourning/celebration, villain/martyr, Christian/Muslim were just ideas. They had nothing to do with "what is". I realized that reality doesn't bother with such things. The mountains and trees and birds and wind have existed long before our race; they will persist long after us as well.
In that moment, I began to understand reality is not always what it seems, yet it's right before us all the time. After that experience, I started to renew my sitting practice. I recognized reality--at least what I understood as reality for that momment--for what it was without me as the center.
Something we all know, are conscious of, and cannot disagree with - but are blithely un-mindful of, much of the time.
WAKE UP!!
Good one....
I have seen the video of the plane that hit the Pentagon........It appears to look like a milatary plane. It did not appear to be large enough to be a jet liner.
Also none of the CEO's of any of the companies that were housed in the World Trade Centers were in their offices at the time. They were all at a special meeting called by the gov. in upstate New York. There was evidence stored in tower 2 about 2 cases that would implicate several very high ranking ppl in this country. All that evidence was distroyed. One of the cases was about gold trading.
I have been trying to examine the buddha/dharma/sangha from the light (ashes?) of 9/11. It certainly is a great illustration of the negative and postive consequences of "mind in the lead".
inthedharma. I also have been reading some of the alternative theories and would be happy to discuss...in another thread. Go ahead and start one, if you like.
M.
I love it, ITD! Thank you. The best laugh today.
And did you know that the Twin Towers were built directly over the secret headquarters of the Justified Ancients of Mu? I also know, from an unimpeachable source, that, as the first "plane" struck, the present Prior of Sion was assassinating the Pope, replacing him with an animatronic model, controlled from the Catacombs by a high member of the Illuminati. The aim, of course, was to call a new Crusade against the Muslim hordes and thus imminentise the eschaton. We still cannot be sure that this disastrous outcome will be realised as it is not due to come to fruition until 12 December 2012, according to the Mayan Calendar.
(nodding) I also am being more careful and mindful about what I feed my brain related to 9/11.
As someone said "I replay it in my head - and not because it's been replayed so often on TV..."
Thanks for the Shenpa lesson!
There it is - the results of grasping - the result that's known as 9/11. And look how many are hanging/grasping onto that too!
I did not want to do jury duty as I'm very disallusioned(sp?) with our judicial system.
There was an interview process where all of us were able to ask questions and be asked questions by the attorneys while they evaluated us for jury selection. In case you're not familiar with it in the States, there are 25 people called for Jury Duty. Twelve are selected with an additional 13th member in case they lose one through the proceedings.
As this case involved firefighters, the attorney for the prosecution started off with, "Wow.. this is going to be tough. I'm sure many of you are going to have a tough time judging this fairly with 9/11 sitting right there in the front of your minds."
I thought, you f#cking bastard! 9/11 has nothing to do with this case. I never thought about 9/11 until you brought it up. This is just sensationalization that you are trying to use to sway people!"
I did say that I didn't think that I could just fairly because of how pathetic I feel our judicial system is. That no one really wants to know what is right or wrong. The clients hire attorneys and a judge is paid to sit on the panel. Nobody asks the question "Is this the right thing to do?" People only ask questions about "how do I get out from under this issue, blame, financial reprocussion?" I stated that I didn't think the attorneys were worried about doing what was right - it's just a game of words and semantics.
I still got chose. Go figure.
-bf
cheers
Xray
I pray for all victims, though.
My husband did the same type of thing when called for jury duty. He told them what he thought about the system. He also got picked........His last one was a rape case. He has been called 3 times since we moved here and all 3 times he has been picked. Told him he needs to stop trashing the system cause they must obviously like that. Or it's his long hair. lol
This is the photo that I can't get out of my head for the last week. The North Tower, with the corner of the South Tower just visible on the right.
This is what it looked like the first night before any crews had started moving the big pile.
From the website http://www.911exhibit.com
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Within a few days of the September 11, 2001 attack on the World Trade Center in New York, the Museum of the City of New York engaged the noted photographer Joel Meyerowitz to create an archive of the destruction and recovery at Ground Zero and the immediate neighborhood. The 9/11 Photographic Archive will eventually number more than 5,000 images and will become part of the permanent collections of the Museum of the City of New York where it will be available for research, exhibition, and publication. Meyerowitz is working with a large format camera, which allows for the greatest detail and color reproduction.
[/FONT]
I saw that video before it was removed from the internet. Very interesting.
Are you being serious?
He might be serious. Check this out:
Pope 'meant no offence' to Islam
and the full text of the Joey Ratz speech:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_09_06_pope.pdf
In a world where, allegedly, God can sacrifice God's own son as a 'sacrifice for sin', is anything serious?
Yes, that deplorable Mr. Bush.
The bright side of the picture is that people are not thronging like lemmings to the celebrations this year.
I also generally avoided the TV, but then I was in the presence of one when there were no witnesses, and I did find some noteworthy footage on C-span.
One sequence was of the President and the First Lady at a memorial for some of the fire fighters who died on that day. It was at the fire station, not ground zero, and the two of them had the decency to be seen and not heard, for all of twenty minutes. There was a recitation of the Beatitudes from the Gospel according to Matthew, most of which argue against Iraq, especially the next to last one, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God." To watch Mr. Bush listening to that, staring at the ground, and bunching his jaw muscles, was just like watching Mr. Clinton look into the camera and say, "I never had sex with that woman." Bush is a better liar. He hides his eyes.
Then there was a really chilling sequence of Dick Cheny and, of all people, Margaret Thatcher, coming out onto the White House lawn to have a moment of silence, in full view of the assembled and gaping (but thoroughly well-heeled) masses. They were equally silent, and the body language was equally telling. Cheny's perma-sneer didn't waver for an instant, nor did Thatcher's poker face, and although Mrs. Cheny accompanied the two of them, all the rapport was between Cheny and Thatcher. The high point of occasion was the best rendition of Taps that I have ever heard, by a Marine bugler who must have had a silver instrument. It was truly haunting. Cheny's slight limp and officiously hunched back were the perfect foil for Thatcher's ramrod deportment as they stalked silently back to the cover of the White House.
Then there was footage of the occasion at the (presently) temporary memorial at that field in Pennsylvania where the hijacked airplane heading for the White House was taken out by heroic passengers. This one gave me future shock. They had the most bathetic and lugubrious rendition of "America the Beautiful" that can be imagined. Indeed, it was beyond what could have been imagined by a normal human being, by a High School band that sounded like it had been deserted by all its soprano and tenor instruments, on the morning after a really atrocious night. The accompaniment was way slow, way flat, and almost completely lacking in any detectable relationship to the melody, which although badly rendered, was at least identifiable as a genuine attempt at patriotism. The camera dwelled on the patrician face of one of the locals, incredibly long in the jaw and short in the cranium, as she dabbed the tears away.
That was followed by a thoroughly sophmoric, rambling, and somewhat stuttered discourse which a very well-intentioned gentleman, who had lost his father and step-mother on the flight, repeatedly and to no apparent effect whatsoever was trying to screw up into a fund-raiser for the permanent memorial structure that five or six governmental agencies and a raft of private individuals were reportedly winding themselves up to plant in that field.
This struck me as the kind of thing that no one in America can stop, once it gets this far. God could not stop it. It will become a cause celebre, and that field will become more important, and more symbolic of America and Pennsylvania, than Gettysburg. I don't even want to think about what it will look like.
But it's good, in a wierd kind of way. 911 is becoming something that we remember and memorialize, rather than being made stupid by it in the present.
It struck me that most of this national TV footage could not have become this genuinely bad, from a professional media point of view, without the connivance of the press corps. The President and his Neocon goons have made fools of them, and this is the beginning of their revenge.
Politically, I think we're finally going to start turning the corner on the idiocy in the upcoming election. I've just gotten back online, for the purpose of inundating Usenet with my political opinions, again. I notice that the Repugnicans still aren't listening. I'm going to have to invade their favorite groups to post another 40,000 messages about exactly how wrong they are. They've forced my hand in this matter.
Namo Amito Fo
性 平
There is no politically incorrect Buddhism.
The American Buddhist Group