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Calling all science majors...
would you care to break this down so a liberal Arts Major could understand?
Much appriciated!
negative energy?
Posted by iskra on February 27, 2000 at
00:31:35:
In Reply to: Dirac's sea
posted by Kaplon on February 26, 2000 at 02:00:21:
Fascinating... Was Dirac's sea ultimately rejected, or is it still being
validated?
What is negative energy?
kaplon:Much more radical though was that the solutions to the free
electron equation also had valid mathematical solutions in which the electron
could have POSITIVE CHARGE, and NEGATIVE ENERGY. These two things put the most
eminent theorists into utter shock, which abated quite a bit when Anderson
discovered the positron in 1932, showing that Dirac had predicted the existence
of antimatter before it had ever been dreamed of or discovered.
Could the positron then be defined as equivalent to the electron but
with negative energy? How is 'negative' in this case opposite to positive?
kaplon: But the negative energy state solutions were even more mind
blowing, because the electron state transition rules implied that all the
electrons in any Hydrogen atom would have fallen into them long ago, so why were
there any hydrogen atoms as we know them ??
: Dirac's fascinating and
contoversial solution to this was to propose that this in fact had already
happened-- the vast vast majority of electrons in the universe had all fallen
into the negative energy states (of which there were infinitely many, going down
to -infinity in energy units) and the the negative energy states were completely
filled, so the electron's people see just can't get in there.
Could (or has) this been observed experimentally - - that there
are/could be infinite negative states? This is different than there being
infinite amount of negative energy, isn't it?
kaplon: So Dirac has the universe full to the brim with negative energy
electrons, an utterly infinite amount of negative energy. He then explains the
positron (first instance of anti-matter known to humans) in this way. Some of
the real world electrons can sometimes acquire enough energy to 'knock into'
this infinite sea of negative energy (whence came the term 'Dirac Sea'), kicking
an individual negative energy electron out into the world we see.
So the world we see is in a way the exception/the random accidental
occurance... and antimatter is the 'normal' state of things? (By the way, how
does 'accidental' fit into the discussion of 'arbitrary' and 'random'?)
kaplon:This leaves behind a 'hole' in the Dirac sea, which would appear to us
as a positively charged particle with rest mass equal to that of the electron,
and voila - the positron !
Amazing! We are the void.... Maybe consciousness is lack, not
presence. I always thought freedom could be best defined as a lack of
restraints, but I never thought consciousness can be seen in terms of a
hole/absence also...
What is the quantum ether?
iskra
: Ciao for now,
: Kaplon
: : Do let me know what Dirac's infinite sea of negative energy is,
please.
: : It is exciting that you also are interested and see the potential
of consciousness "alteration"...
: : iskra
:
: :
: : : Couldn't agree with you more. Tho' the pure science stuff
in itself always has a deep personal fascination for me, but the more I consider
this it's for the reasosns you point out.
: : : Let's never forget Dirac's
infinte 'sea' of negative energy as another eye-opening mind mender.
: : : Kaplon
: :
: : : :
: : : : Kaplon: Also, although I take no 'position' on
this, the string theorists have come to where they think space and time can be
done away with completely. That they are artifacts of fields and our age old
descriptions. Relativistic Quantum Field theory also anticipated this point of
view.
: : : :
This is fascinating to me not because of the truths it might
reveal about our world (I think truth will be constructed and never discovered
according to some framework no matter what, we cannot escape it. It is
fascinating because of the potential it reveals for changing our own
consciousness. Subject/object can also be done with. What replaces them will be
a new order of consciousness not new truth about the world...
Much appriciated!
negative energy?
Posted by iskra on February 27, 2000 at
00:31:35:
In Reply to: Dirac's sea
posted by Kaplon on February 26, 2000 at 02:00:21:
Fascinating... Was Dirac's sea ultimately rejected, or is it still being
validated?
What is negative energy?
kaplon:Much more radical though was that the solutions to the free
electron equation also had valid mathematical solutions in which the electron
could have POSITIVE CHARGE, and NEGATIVE ENERGY. These two things put the most
eminent theorists into utter shock, which abated quite a bit when Anderson
discovered the positron in 1932, showing that Dirac had predicted the existence
of antimatter before it had ever been dreamed of or discovered.
Could the positron then be defined as equivalent to the electron but
with negative energy? How is 'negative' in this case opposite to positive?
kaplon: But the negative energy state solutions were even more mind
blowing, because the electron state transition rules implied that all the
electrons in any Hydrogen atom would have fallen into them long ago, so why were
there any hydrogen atoms as we know them ??
: Dirac's fascinating and
contoversial solution to this was to propose that this in fact had already
happened-- the vast vast majority of electrons in the universe had all fallen
into the negative energy states (of which there were infinitely many, going down
to -infinity in energy units) and the the negative energy states were completely
filled, so the electron's people see just can't get in there.
Could (or has) this been observed experimentally - - that there
are/could be infinite negative states? This is different than there being
infinite amount of negative energy, isn't it?
kaplon: So Dirac has the universe full to the brim with negative energy
electrons, an utterly infinite amount of negative energy. He then explains the
positron (first instance of anti-matter known to humans) in this way. Some of
the real world electrons can sometimes acquire enough energy to 'knock into'
this infinite sea of negative energy (whence came the term 'Dirac Sea'), kicking
an individual negative energy electron out into the world we see.
So the world we see is in a way the exception/the random accidental
occurance... and antimatter is the 'normal' state of things? (By the way, how
does 'accidental' fit into the discussion of 'arbitrary' and 'random'?)
kaplon:This leaves behind a 'hole' in the Dirac sea, which would appear to us
as a positively charged particle with rest mass equal to that of the electron,
and voila - the positron !
Amazing! We are the void.... Maybe consciousness is lack, not
presence. I always thought freedom could be best defined as a lack of
restraints, but I never thought consciousness can be seen in terms of a
hole/absence also...
What is the quantum ether?
iskra
: Ciao for now,
: Kaplon
: : Do let me know what Dirac's infinite sea of negative energy is,
please.
: : It is exciting that you also are interested and see the potential
of consciousness "alteration"...
: : iskra
:
: :
: : : Couldn't agree with you more. Tho' the pure science stuff
in itself always has a deep personal fascination for me, but the more I consider
this it's for the reasosns you point out.
: : : Let's never forget Dirac's
infinte 'sea' of negative energy as another eye-opening mind mender.
: : : Kaplon
: :
: : : :
: : : : Kaplon: Also, although I take no 'position' on
this, the string theorists have come to where they think space and time can be
done away with completely. That they are artifacts of fields and our age old
descriptions. Relativistic Quantum Field theory also anticipated this point of
view.
: : : :
This is fascinating to me not because of the truths it might
reveal about our world (I think truth will be constructed and never discovered
according to some framework no matter what, we cannot escape it. It is
fascinating because of the potential it reveals for changing our own
consciousness. Subject/object can also be done with. What replaces them will be
a new order of consciousness not new truth about the world...
0
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