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how easy is it to apply buddhist values in this society
i don't think that 'western' values mix with buddhist. The majority of ppl i talk to have no comprehension of looking outside themselves or anything other than self.
Because of this you kinda have to speak on their terms or level. Because on my level or a 'buddhists' they cudn't understand anything.
I don't seem to be the greatest person at xplaining stuff so that don't help.
I ain't gunna try to change others 'the majorty of the time' but its hard to speak to ppl who seem so ignorant of everything. Compassionate dialogue doesn't seem to do much to ignorant ppl as they believe they are right. And you can't change someone who doesn't want to be or want advice. And you can't help ppl looking for theories.
i.e my mother has no confidence, and takes anything and everything out of context. She lets ppl have power over her, and attacks herself. She thinks in order to combat this she must be more defensive and have more of an ego.. if i try to help her in calm dialogue she says im depressing, and takes it out of context.
the country is too ignorant here.. and being able to talk to ppl is very very rare about certain subjects. i have 1 friend who understand parts of the path and thats great, but he's still very clouded and believes in elements of the self. Such as dreams and self hope and so on which i believed he's picked up from berserk - griffith talking to charlotte at the dance and V for Vendetta .
Because of this you kinda have to speak on their terms or level. Because on my level or a 'buddhists' they cudn't understand anything.
I don't seem to be the greatest person at xplaining stuff so that don't help.
I ain't gunna try to change others 'the majorty of the time' but its hard to speak to ppl who seem so ignorant of everything. Compassionate dialogue doesn't seem to do much to ignorant ppl as they believe they are right. And you can't change someone who doesn't want to be or want advice. And you can't help ppl looking for theories.
i.e my mother has no confidence, and takes anything and everything out of context. She lets ppl have power over her, and attacks herself. She thinks in order to combat this she must be more defensive and have more of an ego.. if i try to help her in calm dialogue she says im depressing, and takes it out of context.
the country is too ignorant here.. and being able to talk to ppl is very very rare about certain subjects. i have 1 friend who understand parts of the path and thats great, but he's still very clouded and believes in elements of the self. Such as dreams and self hope and so on which i believed he's picked up from berserk - griffith talking to charlotte at the dance and V for Vendetta .
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Everyone has the same buddhanature and will resonate at some level with the Buddha's teachings if they are presented in such a way that they can hear them.
Palzang
However, it depends more, I think, on how open people are. It's not necessarily what is said to them, it's whether they actually want to - or are ready to - hear it.
I let people approach me,and make no comment unless directly requested to do so. I just try as hard as I can to walk the talk, and to 'lead' by example.
Wise saying, that - Actions speak louder than Words'.... 'By their actions shall ye know them'....
Maybe it could be for that there is nothing absolute to Buddhism? As long as it is done skilfully and decided for skilfully, I don't really think the Buddha would even care if you did something contrary to what he usually did. :rockon:
The only way i can stop ppl insulting me is to proove my authority to them and beat 1 senseless tbh.. no talking will help me. And its getting too annoying.
reminds me of ppl talking about prison lol
A quick question. Why do you need to stop people from insulting you?
_/\_
metta
i can only judge things on what i wud do.. and its gunna wear me down eventually when one of them tries to hurt me.
these ppl have already blocked my path.. surrounded me.. and tried to push me about..
i could take any 1 of em out.
but i have no want to do so, but also i'm getting more into not holding backm, my confidence in my abilitys is improving and why shud i have to put up with it?
im gunna end up eventually beating one.. if i stay here..
It's not an issue of 'should'. Of course you shouldn't have to deal with threats to your safety. I wasn't aware of the physical threats you were experiencing.
Anyway, what I was more getting at is looking at your desire to feel superior & dominate the situation & how it is affecting your mental state. If they attack you and hurt your reputation in your social environment, that's one matter. Your inner response to them attacking you & hurting your reputation is another. And with the latter you at least have control.
Another thing I was thinking is that, if you have announced that you are a buddhist, they might be doing the 'so you think you're better than us thing' & intentionally provoking you to bring you down to their level. I have heard of this happening to others. Do you think this might be a factor?
Hope your situation turns out well.
_/\_
metta
there is no reason except complete ignorance and randomly picking on ppl. I saw a group of them insulting everyone who passed by even though they clearly had no idea who these ppl were.. With me its different and some of them have spread around some preconception that i'm homosexual.. for no reason other than they think i am.. and i used to have long hair about 1 year ago..
its all too stupid, and some try to make me start conflict,I'm gunna try to get some banned from coming near where i work..
In order to declare war, you gotta take away their resources.. Thats a start, if it comes to anymore I might try angering them or humiliation. I dont care about no reputation.. but the sheer annoyance is too much.. its annoying when ppl harass u and then pass the buck along to others.. who pick it up and do same..
Umm... alright then. Good luck with that... I think.
take care
_/\_
metta
This stands at the start of the Dhammapada and remains the hardest lesson but one without which the next lessons cannot be learned.
in conflict with the enviro u need to blend.. if at war and cannot win then u shud leave..
i can't leave atm.. and i can't blend in cus im not some council kid with a brummy accent who likes wearing trackies and harassing ppl..
i will stop some of them.. through limiting their resources, i will attempt to get 1 banned from the shop i work at, i will report 1 kid to their head of school who knows me, if this kid continues.. and any others I'm not sure yet.
Anyone acting in a blind, bigotted, prejudiced rage is in pain. Difficult to remember - even more difficult to believe - but true, nevertheless.....
Yes, there is. Simon just gave it to you.
Palzang
Regardless of what you do, here are some questions I think may be helpful for you keep in mind:
Can you keep a mind of goodwill throughout your actions towards both the offenders & those offended?
Can you recognize that there is ignorance, craving & suffering motivating these individuals' behavior? Can you see how your own actions may be motivated by the same criteria?
What images, sentiments, physical sensations come about when you think of these individuals? How do these things affect your well being?
What kind of possible side-effects will your actions have outside of your intended goal?
Do you really want to hurt them, or do you just want them to stop hurting you/others?
What is the course of minimal damage which still achieves your goal?
Are there any parts of your goal that you could live without?
What if your plan backfires? (eg- you get banned, etc)
Anyway, just want to make sure you are taking in the totality of the situation & not just focusing on the feelings of hate/anger/resentment.
take care
_/\_
metta
the protection of ppl in this society is a joke... i should be lawfully allowed to kill them in all honesty.. You should not have laws and cctv and police to protect those who attack everyone and create suffering,grafiti, and a world worse for others.. they suck at public funds, steal our taxes and still they cripple the country..
the police don't actually push the curfews at all.. when they started it lasted something like a month..(its still meant to be in effect) the only way the police ever come in is if somethign major happens like a fire, or some threats.. but half of the threats,harassment, assaults are ignored and most 'laws' seem non-existant. ASBO's are nothing but certificates in being an idiot, which aren't enforced.
if they don't like it here, we should deport them. Their actual contribution is nothing to this society on the whole.. we can get immigrants in who will do the work better and make the country easier to live in with better services.
my ideas are too utopian i know, but i think they would actually work which is the stupid part..
Continual conflict with myself is what i must focus on, for to conquer them i must conquer my own mind first.
Okay, the killing thing is extreme and denotes an agitated mind. To turn the tables on you, is the fact that this stuff bothers you so much really a justification for killing??
Now, to the practical issue. Firstly, where would you draw the line? I could probably identify something that every person in this world/country is doing to make the world worse & cripple the country(myself included).
Second, you forget the execution of human beings cannot remove the relationship that many individuals have with them. Do you really want to cause the families of those people such horrendous grief because you don't like graffiti???
Thirdly, you are not giving those people a legitimate chance to change. By killing every individual who committed a crime, you would be creating an environment of fear which would lower the quality of life dramatically for even the law-abiding citizens.
Also, have you ever killed anyone or do you know someone who has? What kind of effect does that have on the mind? Would it feel great? Or would it feel otherwise? How do you know? Now imagine the effect of killing on a scale you have suggested. What would that be like?
Anyway, I hope this was an exagerrated post on your part which is simply a response the the suffering which these unskillful actions create within you, and the suffering you feel they inflict on others. Your mind wants them dead. Why? You really need to look into why this is emoting such an extreme response. My thought is that you desperately desire peace of mind & you feel that these actions would provide that. So would that, in fact, give you & others the peace of mind you desire?? If you feel it would, is this the only way to bring about that peace? I would like to point to your final sentence in regards to this.
Hope this helps in some way. May you be well.
take care
_/\_
metta
P.S.-Perhaps you are watching too much Berserk.
and im well aware i have much mind conquering ahead of me, hence i put it that the end of my post to symbolise the actual frivilious nature of that post.
Actually, saying that there is no action of cause & effect is an annihilationist view that the Buddha refuted. Just an FYI. Additionally, while I understand your statement that societal structures are bs (and agree to some extent), I would say that your reactions to this perception are also fundamentally untrue, being rooted in ignorance, craving and aversion.
Also, while anarchism might be wonderful in concept, laws & order would quite naturally re-establish themselves. In fact, you already have your own set of laws & order which you proposed in your previous post. I imagine that it would be hard to find an individual who doesn't have some set.
take care
_/\_
metta
Beware of frivolous speech.
i've not yet met a single person who understands that names don't exist cept in our head. And that everything is everything and nothing. Is pretty annoying and can get to me. We all need people to talk 2.. and being harassed by monkeys don't help. I tried explaining it to 1 guy who was talking about seeing the omen, and he got to thinking what wud happen if the apoc actually happened.. i tried to explain to him that whats names were, god is a name..
pick up some grass and tell me what u see, a mouton will say grass.. but i never asked what u were told it was.. i asked what u see.. its green,it dances in teh wind.. some animals eat it.. thas what i see of it, for me thas the true nature.. whatever u see is it.. thas what we see .. grass is only grass cus u named it that.. so what is god?
i am baffled why i can pick up this stuff in a matter of minutes while some ppl can't their entire lives..
ppl i talk 2.. have a tedency of annoying me in that way.. i just ignore it.. but the amoutn of stereotypes that come out of ppls mouths is awful.. the most common one.. is women saying
"MEN!" in a insulting way possibly followed by an insult. .. which is one of the most sexist,negetive and ignorant things i've seen in my entire life and is getting very common place. It bemuses me that ppl can label entire races or sexes as a singular entity..
for example, i'm quite sensitive, i'm a pacificist, i'm 20 and im totally ready for commitment to a woman, i don't drink, i don't do drugs, i don't smoke.. I eat pretty good with plenty of fruit.. I'm fairly quite most of the time..
now u can't compare me with every guy on the planet or even any.. not to mention that that above doesn't fall into their stereotype of men.. seriously.. some ppl just say stuff that makes u wanna kill urself in for a few seconds because its so ignorant.
I don't get it at all why ppl are so regressed and backward that they don't wanna talk about stuff that is so vital to their life. Knowing things of just of them and understanding things can changed ur entire perspective, why do ppl ignore everything and continue to accept whats given to them? because its easier or because they don't actually live? they are already dead corpses walking about being dead inside.
nothing matters and thas what i gotta see. Its when u wake up and ur mind is untamed, you have to spend a little time to tame it. You have to remind urself what actually matters than what is frivilous. Its kidna bizarre, after i read 1 of tnh's books i felt completely calm and compassionate for about a month.. then it began to wain. But this kinda mindset is the opposite in many ways to everyone elses.. and its insanely annoying but sometimes funny to be around such ignorant moutons..
the mindsets just don't mix in my opinion.. i don't wanna talk to most moutons.. and dead ppl
Not to be harsh, but we aren't just talking out of our 'arses' here.
_/\_
metta
Okay. My point was basically that there are things that people here are picking up on rather quickly, that you seem to not be taking in at all. In other words, please consider the nature of realization & that conditions must be ripe for anything to happen. Basically, make sure you aren't putting yourself up on a pedestal and throwing others in the defective pile because of these things, unless you don't mind others doing the same with you. Don't forget the Golden Rule. It's not particularly buddhist (yes I know you don't care about labels), but it does seem to be a good rule of thumb.
take care
_/\_
metta
Palzang
I said it's not 'particularly' buddhist in the sense that it is quite universally found in various religions. But yeah, I imagine it does accurately affect how certain aspects of karma work.
_/\_
metta
And I think it is as easy to apply Buddhist values here as anywhere. If anything, the negatives of society make it easier because two Buddhist values I find important are thinking about things deeply and practicing things like loving kindness and patience despite of obstacles. For me, conflict gives me a better opportunity to do these things and thereby grow as a person.
Concerning the Golden Rule - It's a good rule to follow, in general, but I think Karma is more complex, less black and white so to speak - though really the golden rule isn't that simple, either. Afterall, just because we treat others how we want to be treated, doesn't necessarily mean that they will reflect that. And certainly what I want from people is different can be different than what they want from me. Maybe it would be better to say to treat others like they want to be treated. It does sound less selfish, right? Still complicated, though.
And as for karma itself, I just always think of it as the idea that our consequences have actions and we need to take that into account as much as possible. Certainly how we treat people is an action with consequences, but in real life people aren't always nice to us just because we are nice (at least in our own opinion) to them. And there are many ways of being nice/good/polite/whatever, and sometimes they don't seem so nice at first.
You'll find the answers you're seeking when you develop the empathy and compassion you're lacking for your fellow beings. It is ego and arrogance that you display when you go on and on about people who don't understand the things you do.
unlike the weirdy mystical thing a lot of ppl seem to think it is here, similar to how most ppl here think buddhism is a bunch of guys in skirts praying to a big fat dude in the sky.
lol i still say they don't understand me, majority can't see past their own eyes, so how can they?
Celebrin, I suppose you are right that many have a hard time understanding Buddhist values. But is it really your's or my job to make them? You say people don't understand you, but do you truly understand yourself? Some people don't understand me and things I do, but I honestly don't care.
You complain that people don't understand how there is no self and that ego is an illusion. But read your own posts and it becomes clear that you are still very attached to your own.
Really ask yourself, why do you suffer? Is it really the external things that bother you (words, remarks, people)? Or rather, is it your attachment to your own ego and the hope of defending the 'self' which really isn't there to begin with?
But then he was just aping (sorry, couldn't resist that one) the Golden Rule!
Very good advice, btw.
Palzang
everything seems a bit different..
why should i pay attention to those who are sheep. To those who don't understand anything.. their actual input is pretty worthless..
personal opinions aren't generally that useful..
plus i only got pissed off cus i let myself.. that is partly my fault for not realising and redirecting my energy.
i still think the buddhist mindset is far outside the majority of plps comprehension.. my friends brotherasked me about it and i don't like him.. he was just asking in a kinda "what the fuck is all that about?" kinda chav way.. so i told him it was too complex to tell him.. and he should go read a few books
-bf