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You mean they were magic. All the monks I ever met were just dedicated men.
Were you responding to my post or someone else?? Is a painter magic? Einstein was switched on. I guess you are responding to that rhetoric, switched on? Many of my friends I consider switched on. Galileo was switched on and he was secular.
Ok I'll define switched on as high on intelligence and dedication to excellence. It's always in a matrix or context of the society and peoples therein.
You mean they were magic. All the monks I ever met were just dedicated men.
Were you responding to my post or someone else?? Is a painter magic? Einstein was switched on. I guess you are responding to that rhetoric, switched on? Many of my friends I consider switched on. Galileo was switched on and he was secular.
Yours.
And when painters make copies of their paintings or the paintings of others, they're never exactly the same.
What I don't get is why it matters whether some one takes the suttas as the actual words of Buddha or not. Is the person who sees the "truth", that they cannot possibly be the Buddhas words, any smarter or wiser than the one who doesn't bother to wonder about it? Or is it just more 'questioning who made the arrow that is killing you, instead of taking it out'? Why can't it just be assumed that everyone here knows how unlikely it is that the suttas have been recorded word for word?
You mean they were magic. All the monks I ever met were just dedicated men.
Were you responding to my post or someone else?? Is a painter magic? Einstein was switched on. I guess you are responding to that rhetoric, switched on? Many of my friends I consider switched on. Galileo was switched on and he was secular.
Yours.
And when painters make copies of their paintings or the paintings of others, they're never exactly the same.
That's exactly my point. Everything is unique (just like everything else). But the wisdom mind can make every painting different. You never step into the same river twice. Everyone is switched on, but something is always getting in the way. That something is lack of confidence. Many artists hit a mental block because they are attached to a vision of competence or creativity. Part of art is working with the mind. @taiyaki is an artist whereas I have minor talent and just explore my mind. If I had a deadline on artwork, like @ThailandTom has, it would be another level of working with the mind.
Does this make sense that the painter learns from the teacher? I can try to explain it a different way.
Well, thanks, I think. I can't tell what the club is, though. Is it sacrilegious to question as I have? Are there camps and I enrolled in one but not the other?
First I would like to thank you for your participation-your thinking is clear and precise. 2nd. I think there is one club here but a major Theravedan clique and a Tibetan clique etc. And, 3rd, I would like to input the word 'valid' -as in valid cognizer. The various writings are valid because we and many others have used them to find the promised results. In This sense Christ's teachings are valid to Christians. Invalid subjects lead to results different than those reasonably expected. In Business there is a term which exemplifies this it is "as expected" A business or negotiator who delivers as expected gains respect and trust. I have found the teachings of the Buddha have delivered as expected. Minor differences don't change the results on the ground-as in luminosity. May the good be yours
Hey Vin you said: Yet you ask me to believe that exact quotes were memorized for hundreds and hundreds of years without a syllable or punctuation mark changed. That's folly.
I have always-for 50+ years, thought it was a failure in confidence that some Christians need to look at the Old Testament and say "that is the word of God exactly as he intended it. I don't even think the old testament is Christian. Why do we need miraculous connections if we can change our lives and our hearts through a wise man's teachings. I say: have confidence in the gains you have made and in the changes in your heart which you cherish. Best, Dennis
Jeffrey, I have no idea what you're talking about in your last post, or what relevance it has...to anything in this thread.
I was explaining how the monks could be 'switched on' and what that would mean. You said they were "MAGIC !!" and I explained how they were just in a level of skill, confidence, and creativity.
The link to the topic is that the so called 'chinese whispers' are actually mind to mind transmission of a mental skill. Just like there is a transmission of painting skill among painters and their apprentices.
Actually perhaps the derailment (from talking about serenity) happened HERE:
Weren't there hundreds of years between what Buddha said and anybody writing it down? That's a pretty detailed quote.
So at that point the old tired discussion started and we are left not discussing serenity.
I have no idea what grace means in a Christian context... I've always just thought to be graceful was the opposite of having to put effort into something.
I think you have the gist of it. Grace is the gift of living in the light. We receive the grace of the Buddha's teachings. They lend grace to our lives and living is joyous and effortless. In a Christian context it means Christ has interceded for us to God and the light of his life and intercession bless us and make approaching God easier (or possible). mtgby
Hey Vin you said: Yet you ask me to believe that exact quotes were memorized for hundreds and hundreds of years without a syllable or punctuation mark changed. That's folly.
I have always-for 50+ years, thought it was a failure in confidence that some Christians need to look at the Old Testament and say "that is the word of God exactly as he intended it. I don't even think the old testament is Christian. Why do we need miraculous connections if we can change our lives and our hearts through a wise man's teachings. I say: have confidence in the gains you have made and in the changes in your heart which you cherish. Best, Dennis
I don't think you and I are at odds at all.
As I have consistently maintained, whether Buddha actually said it or not, or whether it's been quoted accurately or not, is irrelevant. Either it's wise, or it isn't.
But, I agree with you. Why would we insist that the Buddhist scriptures are the exact words of Buddha, anymore than we would accept that the Bible is the exact word of God?
Jeffrey, I have no idea what you're talking about in your last post, or what relevance it has...to anything in this thread.
I was explaining how the monks could be 'switched on' and what that would mean. You said they were "MAGIC !!" and I explained how they were just in a level of skill, confidence, and creativity.
The link to the topic is that the so called 'chinese whispers' are actually mind to mind transmission of a mental skill. Just like there is a transmission of painting skill among painters and their apprentices.
Actually perhaps the derailment (from talking about serenity) happened HERE:
Weren't there hundreds of years between what Buddha said and anybody writing it down? That's a pretty detailed quote.
So at that point the old tired discussion started and we are left not discussing serenity.
Jeffrey, you are free to believe anything you want. You can wallow in it. But I think it's a crock.
All that matters to me is whether or not the passage in question (whichever one it is) is wise.
Fair enough, @vinlyn. You are of course free in your own mind I also only pay matter to what I find wise, to be honest. But if I don't like a painting I also just give it a 'miss'. People resonate with different things. It's our karma (according to moi).
Comments
Ok I'll define switched on as high on intelligence and dedication to excellence. It's always in a matrix or context of the society and peoples therein.
And when painters make copies of their paintings or the paintings of others, they're never exactly the same.
Is the person who sees the "truth", that they cannot possibly be the Buddhas words, any smarter or wiser than the one who doesn't bother to wonder about it?
Or is it just more 'questioning who made the arrow that is killing you, instead of taking it out'?
Why can't it just be assumed that everyone here knows how unlikely it is that the suttas have been recorded word for word?
Does this make sense that the painter learns from the teacher? I can try to explain it a different way.
2nd. I think there is one club here but a major Theravedan clique and a Tibetan clique etc. And, 3rd, I would like to input the word 'valid' -as in valid cognizer. The various writings are valid because we and many others have used them to find the promised results. In This sense Christ's teachings are valid to Christians. Invalid subjects lead to results different than those reasonably expected. In Business there is a term which exemplifies this it is "as expected" A business or negotiator who delivers as expected gains respect and trust. I have found the teachings of the Buddha have delivered as expected. Minor differences don't change the results on the ground-as in luminosity.
May the good be yours
Yet you ask me to believe that exact quotes were memorized for hundreds and hundreds of years without a syllable or punctuation mark changed. That's folly.
I have always-for 50+ years, thought it was a failure in confidence that some Christians need to look at the Old Testament and say "that is the word of God exactly as he intended it. I don't even think the old testament is Christian. Why do we need miraculous connections if we can change our lives and our hearts through a wise man's teachings. I say: have confidence in the gains you have made and in the changes in your heart which you cherish. Best, Dennis
The link to the topic is that the so called 'chinese whispers' are actually mind to mind transmission of a mental skill. Just like there is a transmission of painting skill among painters and their apprentices.
Actually perhaps the derailment (from talking about serenity) happened
HERE: So at that point the old tired discussion started and we are left not discussing serenity.
Isn't "oral transmission" a form of sexual abuse?
" Chairman Mao said Religion is Poision". Why abuse those who are diligently seeking?
And you are contradicting chairman Mao saying Religion is valuable seeking?
I'm just trying to understand what you are saying :rocker:
As I have consistently maintained, whether Buddha actually said it or not, or whether it's been quoted accurately or not, is irrelevant. Either it's wise, or it isn't.
But, I agree with you. Why would we insist that the Buddhist scriptures are the exact words of Buddha, anymore than we would accept that the Bible is the exact word of God?
Jeffrey, you are free to believe anything you want. You can wallow in it. But I think it's a crock.
All that matters to me is whether or not the passage in question (whichever one it is) is wise.