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I'm really stuck on the truth of impermanence ....
nibbana and samsara - 2 sides of the same coin - thats why boddhisttva's take a vow not to enter it until everyone has been liberated from samsara ….
Nibbana and Samsara being two sides of the same coin is a mahayana interpretation. Theravada does not hold such views.
you bring up an interesting question as I've never thought about this.. ok so say every being on every world system in every universe and plane of existence becomes awakened.. if Nibbana is samsara.. then what state do they enter once everyone is enlightened?
If Nirvana is conditioned then relying on it would be dukkha. Right? Think about it. If you rely on something that comes and goes you will suffer when it goes and experience 'becoming' (of the nidanas) if it comes.
Rangtongpas explain around that scenario, but I never understood their polemics. I just practice shravaka path so I have no idea.
nibbana and samsara - 2 sides of the same coin - thats why boddhisttva's take a vow not to enter it until everyone has been liberated from samsara ….
Nibbana and Samsara being two sides of the same coin is a mahayana interpretation. Theravada does not hold such views.
you bring up an interesting question as I've never thought about this.. ok so say every being on every world system in every universe and plane of existence becomes awakened.. if Nibbana is samsara.. then what state do they enter once everyone is enlightened?
Hope you might ask that - Pure unconditioned awareness - and it's right here and right now! Samsara -pure unconditioned eternal empty timeless awareness - Nirvana.
OK OK - so I have revealed myself as a Mahayana buddhist. If everyone becomes enlightened together, everyone can build the pure land of Amithaba - because it's right, right? and as Emmanuel Kant says in his' critique of pure reason' yes I have read it cover to cover 'when you are morally right you are right'.
Incidentally Kant performed ritualistic practices, and was probably considered to have OCD - I think he just performed meditation in action. Kant was probably a boddhisattva (just for you @federica :-) ) LOL - stop it!
Nibbana and Samsara being two sides of the same coin is a mahayana interpretation.
If this is true then nirvana is conditioned, which doesn't sound right. :rolleyes:
If you have to do something to get there it has a cause and depends on conditions
Yes, I see what you mean - Nibbana arising in dependence on the 8-fold path, for example. But once Nibbana has arisen, then it isn't dependent on conditions?
@spinynorman, how is a dependent origination sustained if it's dependent on conditional arising ?
DO describes a process of becoming which is based on craving which is based on ignorance. So with cessation of ignorance, there is cessation of craving and therefore cessation of DO, ie cessation of samsara. Does that help?
Nibbana and Samsara being two sides of the same coin is a mahayana interpretation.
If this is true then nirvana is conditioned, which doesn't sound right. :rolleyes:
If you have to do something to get there it has a cause and depends on conditions
Yes, I see what you mean - Nibbana arising in dependence on the 8-fold path, for example. But once Nibbana has arisen, then it isn't dependent on conditions?
@anataman You don't have to manufacture the sun. You just need to blow away the clouds.
@anataman, I struggle with that too. The clouds are made of the sun but the sun is not manufactured. Much of the path is letting the clouds come and go. And other is to with force move the clouds away, such as the lojong teachings. Even the meditation you just let the clouds be. The sun is inside us?? and it always partly gets sun through the clouds. Also we are inseparable from the sun. So it is always there.
Yes, I see what you mean - Nibbana arising in dependence on the 8-fold path, for example. But once Nibbana has arisen, then it isn't dependent on conditions?
You don't have to manufacture the sun. You just need to blow away the clouds.
Yes, that's a good way of looking at it.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
Thanks for taking the time to explain ...I'm a week into this journey so forgive my ignorance
I've been at it for about 22 years and people are always forgiving me for mine.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
nibbana and samsara - 2 sides of the same coin - thats why boddhisttva's take a vow not to enter it until everyone has been liberated from samsara ….
Nibbana and Samsara being two sides of the same coin is a mahayana interpretation. Theravada does not hold such views.
you bring up an interesting question as I've never thought about this.. ok so say every being on every world system in every universe and plane of existence becomes awakened.. if Nibbana is samsara.. then what state do they enter once everyone is enlightened?
Could be either a whole new level of ignorance or the universe itself could awaken.
Comments
you bring up an interesting question as I've never thought about this.. ok so say every being on every world system in every universe and plane of existence becomes awakened.. if Nibbana is samsara.. then what state do they enter once everyone is enlightened?
Rangtongpas explain around that scenario, but I never understood their polemics. I just practice shravaka path so I have no idea.
:rolleyes:
It's bang right there in the middle!
Now where was I?
Incidentally Kant performed ritualistic practices, and was probably considered to have OCD - I think he just performed meditation in action. Kant was probably a boddhisattva (just for you @federica :-) ) LOL - stop it!
http://www.justiceharvard.org/resources/episode-6-discussion-guide-advanced/ if anyone has any academic interest in his influence on morality and duty and justice and humanity and freedom. But that is another thread.
Remove the conditions! and Cessation follows as a natural consequence.
Are we talking about the same thing or are we talking about nothing. Either way this thread aint gonna outlast the title of the title of the OP
Mettha
You don't have to manufacture the sun. You just need to blow away the clouds.
Let the sun shine behind the clouds, and admire the clouds, knowing the sun is always there!
“Muddy water, let stand, becomes clear.”
― Lao Tzu
No one is left behind.