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Stop, drop & roll- The Fire Sermon
not1not2
Veteran
I know this is the beginner's forum, but this Sutta is pretty straight forward. It is also an excellent subject for contemplation. It has many connotations & implications and I would suggest contemplating them in regards to the list in bolded text, going through them one by one.
I hope you find this helpful.
_/\_
metta
SN 35.28
Adittapariyaya Sutta: The Fire Sermon
Translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
"Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.
"The ear is aflame. Sounds are aflame...
"The nose is aflame. Aromas are aflame...
"The tongue is aflame. Flavors are aflame...
"The body is aflame. Tactile sensations are aflame...
"The intellect is aflame. Ideas are aflame. Consciousness at the intellect is aflame. Contact at the intellect is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I say, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.
"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.
"He grows disenchanted with the ear...
"He grows disenchanted with the nose...
"He grows disenchanted with the tongue...
"He grows disenchanted with the body...
"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: He grows disenchanted with that too. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of the 1,000 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.
I hope you find this helpful.
_/\_
metta
0
Comments
Palzang
*Drool*...Love them whoppers!
So how do I reconcile a statement like this with having to exist in a society of capitalism, materialism, and as head of a household who has 2 other people dependent upon my ability to use my intellect and ideas to bring homw a paycheck?
You live in the 'Now'. Because the 'Now' is a place of acceptance, contentment and true, inner endless Joy.
Intellect and ideas are as ephemeral as the breeze...they are constructs of our own suffering mind....they are illusory.
Cast everything aside, and dwell in the Present.
............and then you realise that "Now" does not exist, either.
The enviroment is indeed one that you cannot simply throw away and ignore.. but one you need to blend in with and accept. Being in teh now alone seperates you from others, and i feel like i talk down to ppl.. cus i have to shift down a few gears in my mind. To me there little exists a actual real answer, other than it doesn't matter.. and everything is
all i can say is be yourself, and don't think of urself in any preconcepts.. just be and do.
incedently if anyone does have an answer les hear it lol
Yes...well....one thing at a time, Simon....:buck:
bikefry,
Perhaps the first thing one would have to do is to understand what such a statement means. In SN 35.28, the Buddha delivered this sutta to an audience of one thousand fire-worshipping ascetics, and the Buddha used the metaphor of fire in order to illustrate the Dhamma in a way that they would quickly understand.
Essentially, growing disenchanted with something does not mean that one is incapable of functioning in society. It has to do with the turning of the mind from the conditioned world towards Nibbana. I believe this is a complete shift in how the mind relates to its objects (thoughts, ideas, et cetera)—sans clinging.
A person who is new to the practice, with such responsibilities as a family, shouldn't be worrying about such things until much further along the path anyhow. For a householder, the focus should be on observing the five precepts, practicing meditation, and receiving instructions from a teacher that they trust.
Regards,
Jason
What I don't get is how I am supposed to live in the 'now' when I have a child whose welfare depends on me, not just now, but in the future as well...I have responsibilities that require me to plan ahead farther than my next breath. It's all well and good to say that one has everything one needs here and now to be happy, all one has to do is to 'see' it. But unless you are a monk with a robe, and a bowl, it takes alot more to sustain ones self than that.
I'm just trying to find out how Buddhism can help me in the Unreal World, since that is the one I am currently stuck in.
Palzang
It seems to me that one place where Christianity has something to share with Buddhism, and is sharing it in living ways, is the notion of 'Christian action', the 'corporal works of mercy'. Western individualism has its roots in the Reformers' understanding of personal revelation and responsibility. Linked with the Enlightenment view of the value of human life and the Romantic primacy placed on emotion, the 'post-Christian' ethic is profoundly social, interpreting 'charity' in its helping sense.
The importance of this synergy is that Buddhist writers like Jack Kornfeld or Lama Surya Das now write, not about the philosopho-theological but about getting on with our day-to-day lives, our 'lives of quiet desperation'. Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living and Dying is an extremely practical and humane guide to the process and support of dying. Buddhism as a body of belief is not presented either in full (how could it be?) or as a sine qua non of the value we can get from the advice.
It is precisely the question that challenges me each time I read the sutras: how do I live this? Perhaps that is why I go back, over and over, to the same small group of writings: I've realised that a single sutra may occupy me for the rest of my days, just learning to live it mindfully each moment.
Alot of that is part of the life-long journey, so in a way, people can only tell you to live in the now, enjoy life, blah blah blah. You have to come to the same conclusion at some point through your own experiences.
Living in the now by the way doesn't negate responsibilities and such. It's more of an acceptance that you can't guarentee what will happen in the future, and you can't fix what's been done in the past. Instead, you can only control what you're doing now, hence the Buddha mentioned living in the now.
By all means, you should live as a responsible adult in the modern world. You should plan for retirement, or your child's college fund. This is all just good parenting and responsible living.
However, it is true for any parent that you should enjoy the moments you have with your child now because they'll never be the same either. Buddhism very well confirms this since all things are permanent (your child is constantly growing older...and so are you), and you can't fully predict how your child will turn out. So, take some time out of your day and let your child know how much you love them.
As for living and working in the modern world, I know what this is like. I work in a big corporation, and a lot of it is just money money money. But even within this, I find some nice Buddhist lessons, and enjoy life all the same. Buddhism is best understood when applied to real life, so I think you're doing a good job trying to work the two out.
My only advice is to just keep learning about Buddhism, and just observe things. Don't feel pressured to do this or that, but rather, just observe. Take some time to relax (even 5 minutes) and just ponder things. Sometimes, I just like to find a quiet unused office at work and just chant (in a whisper) something short sutra I know, and I find it keeps my stress down, and reminds that in the grand scheme of things, work isn't such a big deal. Then I don't feel so stressed out.
You'll see (trust me) that the Dharma of the Buddha is all over the place. It's practically in your face sometimes.
Good luck!
Quite true. It's amazing how even a short sutra can sometimes just reveal itself and its truths in the strangest of situations. Even if you've read it a few times, you'll still discover new things.
No wonder the Buddha taught so many sutras. There's practically something there for everyone.
Palzang
Simply doing the dailies in mindfullness in full reverence that the only moment that matters is the one in which one dwells, all is well.
If I have a foot in yesterday or a foot in tomorrow can I be balanced to do what I need to do today? The breath comes only one unit at a time for a reason.:winkc:
When Buddhists take the third refuge, Sangham saranam gacchami "I go to the sangha refuge" they are more than likely taking refuge in the bhikkhu-sangha which is the sangha of monks and nuns. But this is not the same sangha as the triple jewel sangha.
The sangha of the triple jewel is called sâvaka-sangha (disciple-sangha). This sangha is made up of eight kinds of holy persons, including both lay and monastic, male and female. According to Walpola Shri Rahula (World Buddhism Vol. XXII, No. 11 July 1974, p., 330) this sangha "may be considered as the 'Spiritual Sangha'". In the same article he goes on to say this about the savaka-sangha:
There is a widespread misunderstanding that the triple jewel sangha refers only to the bhikkhusangha which is untrue. There is a further misconception that becoming a member of the bhikkhusangha after ordination confers upon one some sanctifying powers and privileges which make them superior to laypersons. This again is untrue.
One who enters the path of stream winning (sotapattimagga) is one who is a member of the savaka-sangha. This person can be either a monk or a layperson—male or female. One may think of stream-entering as an epiphanic experience. This experience goes beyond the formalities of ordination and the donning of robes.
The reason for taking up the monastic life is best illustrated in the discourse, The Fruits of the Samana Life (Sâmaññaphala sutta, Digha-Nikaya I, 63):
By becoming a monk or a nun there are advantages with regard to time, being free of the '8 to 5' routine not to mention being free from the task of rearing children. With this leisure, one may pursue religious study and practice meditation. Also, becoming a monk or a nun improves one's chances of advancing spiritually.
Love ya'll,
Bobby
As for having more time to practice as a monk or nun, that again doesn't really apply in the West. In our sangha, for example, we have quite a large number of ordained, but we all have to support ourselves, work for a living, however you do it, as there is no financial base of support here in the West like you may have in Asia. We're also responsible for maintaining the liturgical calendar, we often find ourselves heading up temple committees, or at least being active members of them, and so forth simply because we're where the buck stops in the sangha. If nobody else does it, we do it. We also are the main support for our 24 hour prayer vigil which has been gong on constantly and unbroken for over 20 years. And on top of that, we also have our own practice to do. For starters...
Palzang
In my early days as a beginning Buddhist, the people that I associated with in most of my time were "Buddhists". Even though I have many friends, work friends, play friends, party friends and so forth. These friends have their own "sangha" as well. Some think football as a religion and their sangha is at a place at the bar where they sit and watch a game going on. Some think making money as a religion and spending time thinking about obtaining wealth is their sangha.
In the ultimate end, it is what people tune their minds into determine their "sangha".
Some Buddhists I knew also practice meditation, reading sutra and stuff but their minds are wicked because they did these practices for "show" or self-interest (of pious, I would guess). So even though they say they are in Buddhist Sangha, their minds are in conflicting hell. I think we should be clear about what our goal are before we set path to practice it.
SG
IMO one's conceptualization is indicative of the one who personifies it, for that is how any practice is personified. To clutch with one's hand so tightly around mental formations is a sure path to samsara.
Does it not stand to bear that violence can only insue when comparing or judging others in defense of one's position?
In Gassho