Meditation and the 'Sky-like' nature of mind

upekka

anataman said:

the ultimate being of human awareness

lust and hate

beyond that

love and compassion

anataman

Hey @upekka, are you a journalist or politician 'sound-biting' or something, because your little snippets are exactly what this thread is about.

This image is of the primordial buddha, openly bareing itself as naked and aware of the lust and desire that envelops itself about him/her in the hope that he/she will impregnate him/her with more lust and desire. (sorry for the political correctness! Don't want the female aspect to suffer unnecessarily.

But he/she is beyond that - it's just pure awareness, nothing more!

Sky-like or 'lie' like...

I'll leave it there.

I saw an episode of The Simpsons today and Homer Simpson was on the run in the country because he'd been challenged someone to a dual. He had to go to the local farm-store and,

well

you will either get it or you won't

upekka

anataman said:

Hey @upekka, are you a journalist or politician 'sound-biting' or something,

I saw an episode of The Simpsons today and Homer Simpson was on the run in the country because he'd been challenged someone to a dual. He had to go to the local farm-store and,

well

you will either get it or you won't

::)

pegembara

Space is something that we tend not to notice, because it doesn't grasp our attention, does it? It is not like a beautiful flower something really beautiful, or something really horrible -- which pulls your attention right to it. You can be completely mesmerised in an instant by something exciting, fascinating, horrible or terrible; but you can't do that with space, can you? To notice space you have to calm down -- you have to contemplate it.

This is because spaciousness is not extreme, it has no extreme qualities. It is just spacious, whereas flowers can be extremely beautiful, with beautiful bright reds and oranges and purples, beautiful shapes -- extremely beautiful shapes -- that are just so dazzling to our minds. Our something else can be really ugly and disgusting.



Now apply this to the mind. Use the 'I' consciousness to see space as an object to the 'I'. We can see that mentally there are the thoughts, emotions -- the mental conditions -- that arise and cease. Usually we are dazzled, repelled or just bound by the thoughts and emotions; we go from one thing to another -- trying to get rid of them or reacting, controlling and manipulating them. So we never have any perspective in our lives, we just become obsessed with repression and indulgence; we are caught in those two extremes.

With meditation we have the opportunity to contemplate the mind. The silence of the mind is like the space in the room; it is always there, but it is subtle. It doesn't stand out, it doesn't grab your attention. It has no extreme quality which would stimulate and grasp your attention, so you have to pay attention, you have to be attentive. Now one can use the sound of silence (or the primordial sound, sound of the mind, or whatever you want to call it) very skilfully, by bringing it up, paying attention to it. By concentrating your attention on that for a while, it becomes something that you can really begin to know. It is the mode of knowing in which one can reflect. It's not a concentrated state you absorb into, it's not a suppressive kind of concentration. The mind is concentrated in a state of balance and openness, rather than absorbed into an object, so that one can actually think and use that as a way of seeing things in perspective -- letting things go.

Noticing space
Ajahn Sumedho
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebmed040.htm

sova

once there was a kite sitting on the ground
and other kites would catch the breeze and float
yet others would catch the breeze and quickly start to soar

some kites soared so high they happily glide in orbit, not falling not rising,

and some kites even realized that there were no kites apart from the sticks, the frame, the cloth, the string

no kites apart from the earth and all the other kites

and some kites understood, and drifted down to the earth to help direct the breeze, ever so slightly, to the countless other kites like me on the ground

eventually families of kites formed, and kites were so happy to help lift each other up into the atmosphere

some kites made it higher still, into space, and could see that the earth itself was like one great kite, and the string holding it in the firmament was always made of space

and all the kites on the great kite rejoiced

and sat calmly on the ground

flying, not flying, nature unchanging



sit down and fly



composed in memory of lady jijo and dedicated to the maximum and true heart inclinations of all beings

atiyana

@anataman said:

Meditation is bringing the mind home (sometimes kicking and screaming) to its natural state. When you are in a meditative state I merely suggest that you are abiding in the field of awareness where phenomena with its properties that are prescribed by the three marks of existence have profound and significant meaning - annatta (the concept of no self), dukkha (the concept of suffering, or unsatisfactoriness) and anicca (impermanence), and see them for what they are.

Meditation on bringing the mind home is contrived and efforted, which has nothing to do with the natural state of mind. The natural state of mind, the all-good, involves no contrivance or effort, it is a non-meditation.

The three marks of existence you list are of the coarse level. The three finer/subtler marks are sunnata, tathata, atammayata. In other words, the coarse marks of existence you list are not really of the nature of mind, but the nature of delusion and samsara. While the finer marks are of the nature of mind.

Chaz

@atiyana said:
Meditation on bringing the mind home is contrived and efforted, which has nothing to do with the natural state of mind. The natural state of mind, the all-good, involves no contrivance or effort, it is a non-meditation.

Nicely put. However, you may notice that the post before yours was made 4 months ago. Some might call that thread mining. Better, perhaps, to resurrect the ideas in a new thread. Our beloved mom errrr mod actually closed one or two such threads just last week.

The three marks of existence you list are of the coarse level. The three finer/subtler marks are sunnata, tathata, atammayata.

All of those words have adequate English equivilants. You should include them with terms like that.

Or are you just trying to impress us? If so, you're in luck, cause I'm impressed. With what, I'm not sure, but I am impressed!

federica

What is it with resurrecting old threads.... Like we don't have enough current crap to talk about, we need to dig old crap up.......? :rolleyes:

Please folks - check the dates: Anything older than 3 months is already old hat........

anataman

@Chaz said:
Or are you just trying to impress us? If so, you're in luck, cause I'm impressed. With what, I'm not sure, but I am impressed!

Me too, it's encyclopaedia buddhanica

anataman

And as to the finer marks, you have to go through the other coarser ones first, and whether you like it or not, they exist in the mind my kind kindle.

Is this your tamayatta @atiyana?

federica

@Chaz said:

you may notice that the post before yours was made 4 months ago. Some might call that thread mining. Better, perhaps, to resurrect the ideas in a new thread. Our beloved mom errrr mod actually closed one or two such threads just last week.

Thanks, @Chaz; don't mind if I do!