Basis for the 6 realms

BCCroney

I understand the principle of eliminating suffering through the removal of desire, I can see how Gautama came up with this. What I do not understand is how Buddha came up with the 6 realms. How was he aware of demigods, gods, ghosts or hell? Does he ever address how he came up with this system and if so could anyone point me in the direction of some verses?

I realize this is probably a tall order, but any insight at all would be appreciated.

Thank you.

KungaTashi

I've wondered similar things as well. I hear about x amount of hells and x amounts of heavens in Buddhism and it throws me for a loop each time cause I do not understand this. I look forward to the responses to BCCroney's post...

LatinaMermaid

Me too.

Jason

BCCroney,

The short answer is, the Buddha was aware of these various realms due to a combination of supranormal powers such as the recollection of past lives as well as the ability to observe the passing away and reappearance of beings (DN 2, DN 11). For a more detailed description of these various realms and their inhabitance, you would have to dig through the vast collection of suttas for more specific information. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to do this right now, so I hope that this short answer is at least somewhat helpful.

Best wishes,

Jason

not1not2

I haven't had time to look through it, but it seems like this article may be what you're looking for:

The Wheel of Birth and Death
by
Bhikkhu Khantipalo

take care

_/\_
metta

Palzang

As the Buddha himself said, the truth is there for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. I think if you just look at the world and especially the state of your own mind it is not so difficult to understand the six realms. In fact, I would say we all cycle through all six realms constantly. The god realm represents pride, the jealous god realm envy (thought I was going to say pride, didn't you?), the human realm doubt, the animal realm ignorance or stupidity, the hungry ghost or preta realm obsessive desire, and the hell realm hatred and anger. Have you ever experienced any of these states yourself? We all do. So if you look at the six realms from the viewpoint of your own mind, they make a lot of sense.

So are there really six realms of existence with beings that we can't see? I don't think that's so hard to imagine either. How many stars are there in the universe? How many planets? Can we know what life is like on any of them? No, just on this one insignificant speck of dust. There are undoubtedly countless trillions of planets out there with life of some sort that we'll probably never know about. So why is it so hard to imagine that there are life forms of all sorts? And whether there really are six realms of existence "out there" somewhere is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is learning how to pacify the poisons of our own minds that these six realms represent.

Palzang

Simonthepilgrim

Palzang wrote:

As the Buddha himself said, the truth is there for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. I think if you just look at the world and especially the state of your own mind it is not so difficult to understand the six realms. In fact, I would say we all cycle through all six realms constantly. The god realm represents pride, the jealous god realm envy (thought I was going to say pride, didn't you?), the human realm doubt, the animal realm ignorance or stupidity, the hungry ghost or preta realm obsessive desire, and the hell realm hatred and anger. Have you ever experienced any of these states yourself? We all do. So if you look at the six realms from the viewpoint of your own mind, they make a lot of sense.

So are there really six realms of existence with beings that we can't see? I don't think that's so hard to imagine either. How many stars are there in the universe? How many planets? Can we know what life is like on any of them? No, just on this one insignificant speck of dust. There are undoubtedly countless trillions of planets out there with life of some sort that we'll probably never know about. So why is it so hard to imagine that there are life forms of all sorts? And whether there really are six realms of existence "out there" somewhere is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is learning how to pacify the poisons of our own minds that these six realms represent.

Palzang

The psychological approach to the 'six realms' is one which certainly appears to resonate more harmoniously with many modern Buddhists, particularly here in the West and among 'intellectuals'.

It should not be denied, however, that they have been and are taken literally by many believers, just as are the appearances of spirits, heroes, demons, etc. Many of the great spiritual classics, such as Longchenpa's Jewel Ship, are written as if dictated by external beings such as Avalokiteshvara or Maitreya. The contemporary re-interpretation is in line with modern revisionism but one may wonder if it fits with the original intention.

"Is God a spaceman?" was very popular a few decades ago and I still find many writers who try to 'make sense' of the metaphysical by dragging myth, screaming and kicking, into a world-view which is just as theoretical. Ancient Egyptians, Atlantis, Avalon, Shambala: you name it, they have all been attributed to "somewhere out there".

The whole notion of spiritual realms, outside the direct and observable experience of research today seems to be abhorrent to people who are quite prepared to believe far more demonstrably untrue ideas.

Palzang

Simon, there have always been "literalists" in Buddhism, just as there are (far too many of) in Xianity. However, it is also true - and always has been so, not just in "modern" times - that on the so-called secret level of practice everything comes down to one's own body. The entire cosmos is visualized as one's body, the six realms are visualized as one's emotional states, and so forth. So this is not a new phenomenon that is the byproduct of "intellectuals" in the West who can't buy the notion of realms that are invisible, etc. Even the bodhisattvas and Buddhas and protectors and demons are ultimately to be realized as manifestations of one's own buddhanature (which is in itself a flawed statement because there is no one to own a buddhanature). That is why when one visualizes oneself as a deity you visualize an illusory body, not a flesh-and-blood body.

Palzang

BCCroney

Thank you for the replies, I found them very helpful. I unfortunately suffer from doubt as much as anybody, but so far all of my questions have been answered very well.

KnightofBuddha

I never consider my doubt suffering nor unfortunate. I believe Voltaire once said, "Doubt is not a pleasant feeling, but certainty is absurd." The Buddha encouraged skepticism even towards his teachings.

Simonthepilgrim

KoB,

Are you sure that "scepticism" is the right word? Does the Tathagata not encourage a spirit of enquiry rather than an attitude of disbelief?

not1not2

Whether or not 'skepticism' is an appropriate word here, there are such things as healthy skepticism & unhealthy skepticism. Unhealthy skepticism is always suspicious, even when they can't find a flaw. It also automatically assumes that a statement is incorrect, when the meaning is not initially clear, rather than taking into account the possibility that the person may simply not understand what was being said. Even further, it automatically discounts statements that the person has not verified through their own direct experience as false.

Just my 2 cents.

_/\_
metta

Palzang

Once again, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head, not1. Healthy skepticism is good because it helps you avoid pitfalls and false teachings. However, too often what we call "skepticism" is really a failure to change old thinking habits and beliefs to accommodate new ones. It is more about ego-clinging than exploring new ideas and beliefs. Of course, it takes time to rewire the old brain, but you have to be open to doing it before it'll ever happen.

Palzang