The Paradox of Suffering

KnightofBuddha

The goal of the Buddha-Dharma is the cessation of suffering. That much is clear. But I read books by the Dalai Lama and Thich Naht Hanh in which they talk of suffering being a great teacher for them. While I fully agree with this, doesn't it seem a bit of a paradox to free yourself of something that teaches you and helps you?

No one wants suffering for themselves, but we ineveitably do learn from it no matter what. Thoughts?

Brigid

KOB,

doesn't it seem a bit of a paradox to free yourself of something that teaches you and helps you?

Twist that around a bit. It's by learning from our suffering that we free ourselves from it. The goal of the Buddha-Dharma is the ultimate cessation of suffering. When we have learned all there is to learn and we understand all there is to understand, suffering ceases. There is no paradox because there is no life in samsara, a conditioned state, without suffering. It is only once we've reached Nirvana, an unconditioned state, that suffering ceases. In other words, we'll never run out of suffering here in samsara so we don't have to worry about freeing ourselves of it because once we have accomplished that freedom we're no longer in samsara.

On a more mundane level, don't forget about how much unnecessary suffering we also cause ourselves...

Celebrin

often blame ourselves for past mistakes, when infact this is completely wrong as .. we are not to blame, we did everything with the best intention.. and u can't ask more than that. Age or Xp are not excuses.. but as long as you have the right intention you have nothing to be sorry for.

Simonthepilgrim

Celebrin wrote:

often blame ourselves for past mistakes, when infact this is completely wrong as .. we are not to blame, we did everything with the best intention.. and u can't ask more than that. Age or Xp are not excuses.. but as long as you have the right intention you have nothing to be sorry for.

The problem with this view, dear Celebrin, is when we come up against someone whom we dislike or with whom we disagree at a gut level. Intention cannot be enough to excuse action, particularly because it is unlikely that anyone acts from unmixed intention.

It was one of my earliest practices and remains a daily one: examination, simplification and purification of intention.

The advantage, however, of taking a position that others act for the best, according to their own lights, is that we cannot see anyone else as anything worse than deluded.

In the family work that I did over so many years, the opposing views of how far good intentions forgive bad actions were constantly in tension. Alice Miller (The Drama of Being a Child) holds that it is a waste of therapeutic effort to try to understand or forgive parents. Virginia Satir (Conjoint Family Therapy) devotes time and effort to such understanding and forgiveness. After some four decades in practice, I still do not know which is more effective - but that's why it's called 'practice'.

Jason

KoB,

"'Dukkha should be known. The cause by which dukkha comes into play should be known. The diversity in dukkha should be known. The result of dukkha should be known. The cessation of dukkha should be known. The path of practice for the cessation of dukkha should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"Birth is dukkha, aging is dukkha, death is dukkha; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are dukkha; association with what is not loved is dukkha, separation from what is loved is dukkha, not getting what is wanted is dukkha. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are dukkha.

"And what is the cause by which dukkha comes into play? Craving is the cause by which dukkha comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in dukkha? There is major dukkha & minor, slowly fading & quickly fading. This is called the diversity in dukkha.

"And what is the result of dukkha? There are some cases in which a person overcome with pain, his mind exhausted, grieves, mourns, laments, beats his breast, & becomes bewildered. Or one overcome with pain, his mind exhausted, comes to search outside, 'Who knows a way or two to stop this pain?' I tell you, monks, that dukkha results either in bewilderment or in search. This is called the result of dukkha.

"And what is the cessation of dukkha? From the cessation of craving is the cessation of dukkha; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of dukkha.

"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns dukkha in this way, the cause by which dukkha comes into play in this way, the diversity of dukkha in this way, the result of dukkha in this way, the cessation of dukkha in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of dukkha in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of dukkha." (AN 6.63)

Jason

Jason

KoB,

The main reason is, you must use conditionality in order to escape conditionality:

"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha; and the noble truth of the way to the cessation of dukkha. But now, bhikkhus, that these have been realized and penetrated, cut off is the craving for existence, destroyed is that which leads to renewed becoming, and there is no fresh becoming." (DN 16)

To escape dukkha, you must understand it completely in order to cut off its roots.

Jason

ajani_mgo

Actually paradoxes are quite a fun thing to have if you live them in your life.

To me it's a bit like paddling in a canoe. You are trying to get out of the water, but to do so, you must use the water's resistance against you.

buddhafoot

I would have to disagree with the statement that we are not to blame for mistakes we have made because we did them with the best intentions.

People don't always act with best intentions. There is greed, anger, hatred, jealousy - a myriad of things that make us respond like we do.

Sometimes - many times - we do things because "we" want to do them. We want "this" or "that" and when the end result is unfavorable - we realize it was a mistake. It's by learning from the heartache, anger, violence, rage, hurt, etc. that we learn the lesson of the mistake.

As someone once said, the worse thing about making a mistake is not learning from it.

-bf

KnightofBuddha

Some of the worst things are done with the best intentions. A brief skim through the history books will tell you that.

Brigid

Very true, KOB. Hence the expression "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". That's why it's essential to act with both good intention and wisdom.

Jason

Brigid,

That expression reminds me of an essay that I read by the Venerable Thanissaro entitled The Road to Nirvana Is Paved with Skillful Intentions.

Jason

Brigid

That's another great essay and a wonderful read. He puts it beautifully when he says:

One of the Buddha's most penetrating discoveries is that our intentions are the main factors shaping our lives and that they can be mastered as a skill. If we subject them to the same qualities of mindfulness, persistence, and discernment involved in developing any skill, we can perfect them to the point where they will lead to no regrets or damaging results in any given situation; ultimately, they can lead us to the truest possible happiness.

Thanks for that link, Jason.