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Has anyone else watched exactly how this present discomfort arose?
We were asked to give commiseration and support to one of our members who was deeply attracted to a young man who has decided to join the armed services. One of our number decided that it was OK to insult the young man and, thus, by implication, our distressed member. The prospective marine is not a member, as far as I know, so he had no chance to respond, making him an easy target for insensitive and plain nasty comments. When some of us suggested that this behaviour was less than the standard which we have set ourselves - and off topic as well - our own commitment to a pacific position was called into question.
As one who has gone to prison for my action against weapons of war and military adventurism, I claim the right to speak for the individuals who decide that they can bring sanity and humanity to an inhumane situation - among them military personnel past and present.
I have spent great swathes of time trying to persuade young people not to join up, often successfully. I would have been doomed to failure if I had started out by calling them names. They would, quite rightly, have refused further conversation.
Let me make my own position clear: I believe that war is a 'criminal' act by its very nature. I believe that the political and military leaders on all sides of a conflict should be arraigned before an international, civilian court so that their actions can be judged openly by the world. I never forget that it was the process of the trials at Nuremberg which brought the horrors of the camps to public attention.
Alongside this, I am aware that there are honest and honourable men and women who believe, passionately, in what they are doing and that it is praised and encouraged by the vast majority of ouir nations. This is democracy: we, as pacifists, are in the minority. If we want to win the argument, we must persuade.
@ZM: At risk of censure from our moderators, I want to tell you that you have undermined any credibility that your arguments may have by your unpleasant and intemperate words. Some of us have made efforts to support and understand where you may be coming from after difficult personal problems. That you should so dismissively ignore another's pain - in this case Sabine's - does not bode well for how you may be received in future. Your self-satisfied certainty that you, and only you, are right and righteous is very far from what I understand - and shall continue to hold - as any manifestation of the compassion of the Dharma in a painful and suffering world.
@Fofoo: I shall be sorry to see you go and do not quite understand why but that is your decision. Perhaps you have got everything you could out of the long and instructive discussions on the more academic threads. May you go in peace and may your journey bring you the awakening that the Tathagata shows us in the Third Noble Truth.
@ Sabine: I hope that the future holds happiness and fulfillment. It has been a pleasure and privilege to have met you.
being upset by ppl's comments happens all too easy..
at least here.. i don't feel like anyone hates me.. or tries to spit at me through their pc monitor.. even if harsh sometimes..
I wish with all my heart that you didn't feel the need to go because I will miss you very much. But we all have to do what we feel is right for ourselves and so, with a bit of a heavy heart, I will say "see you later" in the hope that maybe I will.
I can understand why you're hurt and I don't blame you a bit for turning away. I doubt very much that you need this kind of conflict in your life right now and you don't have to accept it. I congratulate you on your intelligence and strong backbone.
Whatever you decide to do with your friend, I hope everything turns out in the way you need it to and that peace and joy will follow you throughout your life. It really has been a privilege to know you, albeit not really personally. But I'll never forget your wisdom and compassion and how astonishingly well developed they are in you at such a young age.
In my humble opinion, I believe that you will find great success in this life in whatever you choose to do and I'll miss you very much while at the same time being grateful to have met you at all.
I wish you all the joy this world can provide and I want you to know that I'll always be supporting you in my little corner of the world.
All my love,
Brigid
_/\_
I honestly think the real 'ignore' button is your own detachment the mundane world where one sees words are nothing but waves manifested from its unseen source (not from your tongue and palate, but what moves them). That is why lot of Enlightened masters curse all day and not getting bad Kamma. I am not trying to criticize anyone, just like to share a few thought about why we are such retentive being. Being deluded, we are not genuinely compassionated toward others.
SG
Palzang
the reasons are many, most of them have to do with me not the forum. I get emotionally too upset sometimes, which is not good, I gotta fix that before showing again in Internet Fora, wherver they may be. Secondly, I want to spend more time offline, therefore I decided to refrain from posting totally for some time.
I had these thoughts in mind a couple of times already, so yesterday there was no single reason at all, it was just the point where I decided to make this decision. I do not leave in anger at all, sorry if that impression came up.
Warmly
Chris
I wish you all the best.
Sabine, I am so sorry that you are so hurt by that other post. You are a wonderful young lady, and I sure do hope that you will pop back in once in a while - or at least email me or pm me to say hi and let me know how you are doing. Best of luck to you.
All of you will be missed.
xoxoxo - Kim
Love ya'll,
Bobby
and those sincere inquiring voices would sound like .............
Yes, I guess so. :sadc:
I made a comment at the thread that Sabine created. It was my first post in nearly a month. I had left in late November, but I took some time to think about that decision (I thought long and hard about a kind letter that I had received from Federica- thanks Fede!) . Anyhow, I came back to see how things were going. Unfortunately, I saw that it's not going so well.
I sure wish I saw this comment earlier this evening- before I broke down in tears. I know I'm too soft at times, but gee whiz, some of the things I've seen posted here have been downright mean.
You are very right Matt. This will definitely be a hard lesson for me to grasp though. I cherish all of you as if you were my brothers and sisters. It truly makes me sad to see us hurt one another.
Palzang
I really can't stand "I'm leaving" threads on forums. If you want to leave, just leave. Announcing it is generally an attention grab. Most of the time people post "I'm leaving, and here's why" because they want people to step in and say "oh no, don't leave! we love you!"
There are exceptions, of course. I'm speaking in general terms.