Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

lust and mindfulness

betaboybetaboy Veteran
in Buddhism Basics

Mindfulness is great when it comes to observing things that arent part of who we are. Such things just come and go, and we watch them.

But when it comes biological impulse, like hunger or sex, this logic may not apply since these impulses are part of us. I cant just watch hunger, I need to eat.

Seen in this context, how do u deal with lust? It is powerful, plus it is not something that merely comes and goes. It is part of you. So how does mindfulness even fit into this?

So I am forced to conclude that mindfulness is only useful when it comes to handling things outside of ourselves. In other matters, we have to accept it as part of our nature.

do u also feel that way?

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    When hungry eat, When tired sleep. When lustfull blank.

    But eat just to satisfy hunger etc

    Anger has one head. You can cut it almost by just realizing you are angry.

    Craving is a hydra multi-headed. It tells us it will deliver happiness. So then we indulge. Even if we are mindful and don't give in to craving another head just pops up. Mentally masturbating? Next a head emerges to eat. Then to have sex. Then to listen to music. All craving mental experience and physical. It is even in beliefs; we manipulate and champion beliefs.

    The multi-headed you kind of go into the craving. See it as a feeling. See that it doesn't deliver as promised. One thing leads to another and it never delivers lasting 'goodness'.

    But by going into it we are undivided. We are not one side indulging and another side beating ourselves for indulging. Thus you cut lust by embodying it. It is us. But it doesn't deliver what it promises. Eventually we learn it is a bad apple. There is a saying about how good it feels to itch a mosquito bite. But then the saying continues that wouldn't it feel even better not to have the itch?

    That's ^^^ just the 3rd turning of the wheel of dharma. Fortunately there is a further turning, the NOBLE eightfold path. But until we have a realization shattering the underpinnings of samsara we are just on another therapy. Another self help. But of course the nice thing about the eightfold therapy is that it leads us to practice in a sangha and receive teachings. Or just receive teachings from written word and discussions as here at NB.

    Oh and the multi-headed hydra isn't the worst. Delusion is even harder. It is like our senses are all plugged and we are dulled out. We try to brighten up via our ego. We get on our own trips. Nobody said it was easy. Don't give it up just because you can't figure it out with logic.

    Response to a Logician

    The best seeing is the way of "nonseeing"
    the radiance of the mind itself.
    The best prize is what cannot be looked for
    the priceless treasure of the mind itself.

    The most nourishing food is "noneating"
    the transcendent food of samadhi.
    The most thirst-quenching drink is "nondrinking"
    the nectar of heartfelt compassion.

    Oh, this self-realizing awareness
    is beyond words and description!
    The mind is not the world of children,
    nor is it that of logicians.

    Attaining the truth of "nonattainment,"
    you receive the highest initiation.
    Perceiving the void of high and low,
    you reach the sublime stage.

    Approaching the truth of "nonmovement,"
    you follow the supreme path.
    Knowing the end of birth and death,
    the ultimate purpose is fulfilled.

    Seeing the emptiness of reason,
    supreme logic is perfected.
    When you know that great and small are groundless,
    you have entered the highest gateway.

    Comprehending beyond good and evil
    opens the way to perfect skill.
    Experiencing the dissolution of duality,
    you embrace the highest view.

    Observing the truth of "nonobservation"
    opens the way to meditating.
    Comprehending beyond "ought" and "oughtn't"
    opens the way to perfect action.

    When you realize the truth of "noneffort,"
    you are approaching the highest fruition.
    Ignorant are those who lack this truth:
    arrogant teachers inflated by learning,
    scholars bewitched by mere words,
    and yogis seduced by prejudice.
    For though they yearn for freedom,
    they find only enslavement.

    Kundonamarupa
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    It is not a part of you because it is not always there. If it were part of you then you could control it wouldn't you? Even your hand is not you even though you can control it, because it ages and dies. Do you think that your hand is you?

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2014

    oops

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator

    Of course you can be mindful of things within. That doesn't mean if you are mindful enough you don't have to eat, or sleep, or drink. It means you investigate what you are really feeling and determine what is the best course of action to take. Sometimes we eat when we aren't actually hungry. Being mindful of the different is part of being mindful of something not external to you. Just because we lust, doesn't mean we can't control it. Doesn't mean we can't investigate it, and see what is going on, where it is coming from, and so on.

    JeffreyKundo
  • namarupanamarupa Veteran
    edited June 2014

    "And when, Aggivessana, the ariyan disciple is moral, lives controlled by the control..., undertaking them, trains himself in the rules of training, then the Tathagata disciplines him further, saying: 'Come you, monk, be guarded as to the doors of the sense-organs. Having seen a having seen a material shape with the eye, do not be entranced with the general appearance, do not be entranced with the detail; for if one dwells with the organ of sight uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil, unskillful states of mind, may flow in. So fare along controlling it, guard the organ of sight, achieve control over the organ of sight. Having heard a sound with the ear... Having smelt a smell with the nose... Having savored a taste with the tongue... Having felt a touch with the body... Having cognized a mental state with the mind, be not entranced by the general appearance, be not entranced by the detail. For if you dwell with the organ of mind uncontrolled, covetousness and dejection, evil unskillful states of mind, might flow in. So fare along with its control, guard the organ of mind, achieve control over the organ of the mind.'

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.125.horn.html
    >

    Jeffrey
  • EarthninjaEarthninja Wanderer West Australia Veteran

    @betaboy said:
    Mindfulness is great when it comes to observing things that arent part of who we are. Such things just come and go, and we watch them.

    But when it comes biological impulse, like hunger or sex, this logic may not apply since these impulses are part of us. I cant just watch hunger, I need to eat.

    Seen in this context, how do u deal with lust? It is powerful, plus it is not something that merely comes and goes. It is part of you. So how does mindfulness even fit into this?

    So I am forced to conclude that mindfulness is only useful when it comes to handling things outside of ourselves. In other matters, we have to accept it as part of our nature.

    do u also feel that way?

    Well I've thought about this as well, it is important yes to see lust for what it is but what is really starting to help me is to look at what we lust over, mindfully of course.

    When you look at the human body for instance, you realise how it's not inherently beautiful. It's dirty, it naturally smells bad. Especially without a shower. We defecate and urinate.
    Compare this to a flower? Clean, beautiful colours and always smells amazing.
    So we can see how deluded we are. We see a model as almost angelic in appearance. Why? Because she has long legs and high cheek bones. Legs and cheek bones are not beautiful!

    I heard a great analogy. You look at a girls hair and say wow that's gorgeous long hair. Then she cuts it off. You see the hair lying on the ground and think gross. Imagine keeping that in a cupboard! Same hair, but without the whole picture you see how enchanted we are.

    Meditation in parts of the body really helps me. You realise lust is a biological tool. It's not bad or good. But our deluded minds are the problem.

    Jeffreybetaboy
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    @betaboy said:
    Mindfulness is great when it comes to observing things that arent part of who we are. Such things just come and go, and we watch them.

    But when it comes biological impulse, like hunger or sex, this logic may not apply since these impulses are part of us. I cant just watch hunger, I need to eat.

    Seen in this context, how do u deal with lust? It is powerful, plus it is not something that merely comes and goes. It is part of you. So how does mindfulness even fit into this?

    So I am forced to conclude that mindfulness is only useful when it comes to handling things outside of ourselves. In other matters, we have to accept it as part of our nature.

    do u also feel that way?

    >

    Absolutely not.

    Hunger is nothing like Lust.
    Hunger is a physical biological need.
    If you don't eat, (eventually) you die.

    Lust is a mental construct.
    And if you think it can't be controlled, check in with a monk of long-standing and ask how they do it...

    If you are a layperson, however, there's nothing wrong with Lust... (Jeesh, I don't know how many times we've said this, and I can't help but feel you HAVE been part of some discussion, on some similar subject) ...It's not the Lustful feeling that is the problem.
    It's the hankering, the clinging and habitual connection to it.

    The problem here, is your conviction that Mindfulness is useless in controlling Lust.

    It's a question of not turning a feeling into an addiction.
    Abstain.
    Every time you feel the urge to indulge in Lust - look inwardly and challenge that desire.
    Calm it, question it; see whence it came. Why are you feeling lustful, at that point?
    What has triggered the Lust?

    Work on it.
    Because frankly, Mindfulness is the best thing you've got.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    Here, @betaboy, there are just some of your threads, you may like to review. You may find it's just repetition of the same old same-old.

    We have repeatedly tried to tackle this question for you.
    It seems you hear but don't listen.
    Time for a review of your posts, that may serve you better than continually posting what amounts to the same topic, ad infinitem...

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/21009/craving-is-hard-to-overcome#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/20613/how-do-you-develop-detachment#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/20450/is-it-wrong-to-lust#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/20436/desire-vs-craving#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/20316/letting-go-is-impossible#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/20257/is-it-okay-to-have-a-favorite-sin#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/19950/mindfulness-in-daily-life#latest

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/19586/overcoming-attachment#latest

This discussion has been closed.