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Self

edited December 2006 in Buddhism Basics
Outside myself i do not exist, my thoughts do not exist. I do not exist in memories as these are personal perceptions and biased things ppl remember which are lies.

Every moment of my being is brought upon by other forces, my mood, how i wake, what i think. In essence nothing is me.. nothign is personal.. and everything is influenced upon me.. a sea of endless garbage. i am the product of a neverending cycle of trash.

I have died before i was born, and i have 1 path.. i do not exist.. past myself and therefore am singular..

who am i? i aren't.. I am another clone,the endless wave moved in any direction i am influenced by the wind.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    who am i?.. I am another clone,the endless wave moved in any direction i am influenced by the wind.



    ...And you are not this, either....
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    Outside myself i do not exist, my thoughts do not exist. I do not exist in memories as these are personal perceptions and biased things ppl remember which are lies.

    Every moment of my being is brought upon by other forces, my mood, how i wake, what i think. In essence nothing is me.. nothign is personal.. and everything is influenced upon me.. a sea of endless garbage. i am the product of a neverending cycle of trash.

    I have died before i was born, and i have 1 path.. i do not exist.. past myself and therefore am singular..

    who am i? i aren't.. I am another clone,the endless wave moved in any direction i am influenced by the wind.

    How can you be a clone of something that wasn't there in the first place?


    Anyway, I try not to dwell on the idea or lack there of in regards to the Self. I have no belief in such a thing or a soul for that matter. However, my personal ethics are very much concerned with the 'individual'. And how can they not be?

    All my ideas on philosophy, political theory, and ethics center around what is referred to as the 'individual.' I have no problem with doing so. Talk of being nothing and not being seems rather useless to me and doesn't really lead anywhere. (Maybe that's the point) Whether someone thinks of themseleves as an 'endless cycle of trash', the 2nd Coming, or nothing at all, I believe the individual does matter.
  • edited December 2006
    its like.. i don't own myself, i have no real control over myself.. i simply react to things and they influence me.

    Imagine a giant mould.. except u fill certain parts to a limitless level and other parts less so.. u have no control over where it goes... its in constant flux.. made by the culture , way of living and things .... because you are individual and alone, you still are simply a product of all around you.. and in that case.. just a collection of lies. Outside these lies, is there anything you can measure yourself by? Outside yourself can you measure yourself?

    did anyone watch channel 4.. the guy who was in a coma for 20 years? there was a guy later on, who was in a car accident and damaged his frontal lobes.. he is now unable to feel pleasure or pain.. and gets easily annoyed and frustrated.. he can't care or love anyone.. and as such he could easily kill his wife and son and feel nothing... in any way.. he lives in a kinda void. And is such unable to work or do much at all.. give him a gun and he could easily go on a killing spree like it was getting teh groceries,,,
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    Outside myself i do not exist, my thoughts do not exist. I do not exist in memories as these are personal perceptions and biased things ppl remember which are lies.

    Every moment of my being is brought upon by other forces, my mood, how i wake, what i think. In essence nothing is me.. nothign is personal.. and everything is influenced upon me.. a sea of endless garbage. i am the product of a neverending cycle of trash.

    I have died before i was born, and i have 1 path.. i do not exist.. past myself and therefore am singular..

    who am i? i aren't.. I am another clone,the endless wave moved in any direction i am influenced by the wind.

    If outside yourself you do not exist, then how can your ancestors reside in you, as well as your ascendents (should you procreate, that is)?
    Is it not more aptly to say that one is but a symptom of the universe? If apple trees apples, then does it follow that the cosmos peoples?
    Why isn't cancer seen as symptom, rather then a disease? What is disease other than discomfort?
    Look deeper to the four folds, my friend.:winkc:
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited December 2006
    its like.. i don't own myself, i have no real control over myself.. i simply react to things and they influence me.
    Yes, you do have control over yourself. That's what the Buddha is trying to tell you.
  • edited December 2006
    my mind and thoughts exist only in my head, my future is singular and nothing but a product of past and present influences.

    My ancesters are nothing more than some dead ppl that i owe some genes to.
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    my mind and thoughts exist only in my head, my future is singular and nothing but a product of past and present influences.

    My ancesters are nothing more than some dead ppl that i owe some genes to.

    "oooohhh, so sure is he, mmmmhhhmmm ( in Yoda style )..........., solid in conviction he is.............":skeptical
  • edited December 2006
    Actually,

    I had the thought arise sometime back, that mine is to heal those things that my ancestors hadn't the capacity to. One is only microcismic or macrocosimic to one's understanding of which they had little, yet in that ingorance was bliss.

    As I give energy to resentments or resentiments a stain is left on all I touch. The more repeatedly it is touched the deeper it resides, such is samsara. Left unchecked / or noticed and released may become a structural psychic groove.
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin, stop overanalyzing, stop feeling sorry for yourself, do some manual work and meditate.
  • edited December 2006
    i dont think i did feel sorry for myself while writing it.. and i do more than enough manual work. I feel like a truck hit me atm
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited December 2006
    Take it gently, Celebrin. This can be a hard time of year. Be kind to yourself.
  • edited December 2006
    Good to see you Zenmonk.
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    i dont think i did feel sorry for myself while writing it.. and i do more than enough manual work. I feel like a truck hit me atm

    Oh really, now.
    More like a tree dropped on you and knocked the wind out, maybe?
    Or was it a piano? ;)

    See you in the lotus lounge.:om:
  • edited December 2006
    well.. if i did any more, id hurt myself, i'll put it that way.. my wrist has gone dodgy lately from over use.. and i'm always jogging and doing weights... simultaneously of course.

    Unloading an entire delivery into a -20 degree freezer don't help

    yea ive started reading thich nhat hahn again, somethign bout his writings calm my heart
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    yea ive started reading thich nhat hahn again, somethign bout his writings calm my heart

    which?
  • edited December 2006
    started 'anger- buddhist advice for cooling the flames'.. and re-reading the old 'heart of the buddha teachings'

    probs the best ones to direct myself to.. I'd read more of tibetan book of living or dieing but its a pretty heavy book if u know what i mean.. i've learnt from it.. but by god is it heavy.
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    its like.. i don't own myself, i have no real control over myself.. i simply react to things and they influence me.

    Imagine a giant mould.. except u fill certain parts to a limitless level and other parts less so.. u have no control over where it goes... its in constant flux.. made by the culture , way of living and things .... because you are individual and alone, you still are simply a product of all around you.. and in that case.. just a collection of lies. Outside these lies, is there anything you can measure yourself by? Outside yourself can you measure yourself?

    did anyone watch channel 4.. the guy who was in a coma for 20 years? there was a guy later on, who was in a car accident and damaged his frontal lobes.. he is now unable to feel pleasure or pain.. and gets easily annoyed and frustrated.. he can't care or love anyone.. and as such he could easily kill his wife and son and feel nothing... in any way.. he lives in a kinda void. And is such unable to work or do much at all.. give him a gun and he could easily go on a killing spree like it was getting teh groceries,,,


    I feel like this is dangerous thinking. I agree with Brigid on this, the Buddha's teaching is not at all like this way of thinking. The Buddha's teaching is for you to own yourself, to have control over that which you can have control over (your morality), then to move on to the level of cultivating non-clinging to that which you cannot have control over. This Buddha's path is for self-realization, for going home to your native territory. One of the similes about this is the idea of a king who is sovereign in his home land, but who, perhaps, has wandered into another kingdom and fails to exercise any sovereignty therein. If he could only realize this and return to his native land, his ancestral home... On this point I will say that I agree with Zenmonk, this is the role of meditation. Meditation is your ancestral home, or at least the quest to find it again.

    in friendliness,
    V.
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited December 2006
    Sure, we are made up of all sorts of elements that are not 'us'. In that sense, my ancestors not only consist of my family bloodline, but the earth, the ocean, the cosmos, past conciousness, etc. We can break it all down ad absurdium if we really want to. However, this can be quite destabilizing if we take it too seriously or wrongly. Regardless of whether there is any ultimate agent (as in the 202 debate) 'we' are nonetheless the result of our karma, owners of our karma, heirs to our karma. And regardless of whether 'we' ultimately have existence there is still cause and its affect. There is still dukkha. This path is about the cessation of dukkha. If you are not well established in the 8-fold path, it doesn't matter what view you take or whether you under-analyze, over-analyze or whatever. There will still be suffering, as actions outside the 8-fold path do not produce the cessation of suffering.

    Basically, even if this is a genuine insight you've had (& I've had similar ones), it doesn't change a thing. You get beaten over the head with a stick it still hurts. You insult someone & they still experience suffering. You have a scattered mind, then you still have a scattered mind. Now, this insight may hopefully uproot some ego-clinging on your part & I think if you applied it to those people who you have such negative opinions of, you might see that those negative opinionss are based on incorrect perceptions. You may also feel more fortunate in your position & more compassionate towards them.

    Anyway, best wishes & metta
    _/\_
  • edited December 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    started 'anger- buddhist advice for cooling the flames'.. and re-reading the old 'heart of the buddha teachings'

    probs the best ones to direct myself to.. I'd read more of tibetan book of living or dieing but its a pretty heavy book if u know what i mean.. i've learnt from it.. but by god is it heavy.

    Have you read this thread that I statred at Buddha Chat on transfromation meditations?
    http://www.buddhachat.org/forum/showthread.php?t=362

    In Gassho
  • edited December 2006
    see post #29
  • edited December 2006
    eeh how many sites are you guys on..
  • edited December 2006
    Two philosophy, 1 haiku, 2 Buddhist, 1 international discussion board
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