Strange topic but..

KungaTashi

...I thought this might get some interesting responses. I have been on this kick of watching ghost shows. Like the one's where they spend time at a place to see if it's haunted. I had this weird thought the other day while watching one. They constantly show orbs, little balls of light. I know in Buddhism there is talk of ghost realms, etc. I was thinking what if we could attribute these orbs as balls of (karmic) energy since they are not defined astral beings or whatever you want to call them. What are your thoughts on that? I know it sounds silly but I thought it might be interesting to hear other's opinions that might be into these shows and stuff...

Xrayman

Yea, i'm right into Most Haunted and Dead Famous.

(have you seen the gorgeous Gail Porter?) anyway, the orbs that they refer to seem to be somewhat "physical" as they are often captured on the cameras digitally as well as on film. They seem to evade human visibility though, although an interesting experiment is looking at a tv remote control while selecting a button, the video camera can see the infra-red, but we cant (naked eye cant).

anyway-not sure if the energy is karmic-seems a little far-out for me to understand.

Frizzer

I like Most Haunted. A friend of mine works in the music and video industry and he met one of the producers to discuss a future project.
It was quite interesting as the producer said Derek Accora really plays up for the camera and that the reason his spirit guide is called Sam is that it's the name of his nephew (I think, coudl be grandson) so it's easy to remember! Yvette Fielding said the only spirits he's ever seen are behind a bar!!
I feel sorry for Stuart on there as he always get's the worst experiences :eek:

Despite this though the producer said that they really have had some strange and unexplainable events happen on some of their vigils. I still enjoy watching it even though I know some of it is staged, it's just good fun! As for the "Girly Ghost Hunters" - I'm not quite sure what I make of that one!

federica

"A little respect - a little reverence, for the things we cannot see..."

And a healthy dose of scepticism for the things we can....!

Simonthepilgrim

Our local "secret valley" contains a strange 19th century, Gothic house, Woodchester Mansion. Quite a number of friends have seen things and have taken pictures of 'spheres' there. I have no personal experience of this.

keithg

The majority of the time those orbs, and light balls tend to be dust or glitches with the camera. If you have seen the show "Ghost Hunters" they tend to pay little to no attention to those. Although once, I've seen them take many photographs with a light ball almost hogging camera time. Here is a page with plenty of examples of mistaken dust, faked images, and mistaken camera straps.

I love those shows too. :bigclap:

Palzang

And don't forget lens flare. I've never seen a picture of one of those little "balls" that looked in any way convincing. More delusional projection by those who want to believe, imho. ("I do believe in fairies, I do, I do!") As for the ghost hunter shows, they're about as interesting as watching grass grow, imho - a bunch of wallys running around trying desperately to look like they know what they're doing and going spasmodic whenever they hear a creak.

On the other hand, I do believe ghosts exist. In Buddhist terms they're consciousness that has become trapped in a non-physical realm who try to still function as though they were physical beings, a sort of local hell realm. I've encountered a few of them myself. The town of Jerome near me is full of such beings. No energy balls though!

Palzang

keithg

Palzang wrote:

And don't forget lens flare. I've never seen a picture of one of those little "balls" that looked in any way convincing. More delusional projection by those who want to believe, imho. ("I do believe in fairies, I do, I do!") As for the ghost hunter shows, they're about as interesting as watching grass grow, imho - a bunch of wallys running around trying desperately to look like they know what they're doing and going spasmodic whenever they hear a creak.

On the other hand, I do believe ghosts exist. In Buddhist terms they're consciousness that has become trapped in a non-physical realm who try to still function as though they were physical beings, a sort of local hell realm. I've encountered a few of them myself. The town of Jerome near me is full of such beings. No energy balls though!

Palzang

Oh the show called "Ghost Hunters" seems to be far more credible than all the others. It's a really young show, and throughout the first season they were determined to do all they can to dissprove all the claims that the people make at the places they go to (in hopes of finding something that they can't explain). And they do a very good job at that. One episode they discovered that a man had chemicals in his house that were near his ventilation that lead right to his bedroom, and they looked up information on the chemicals and found that they can have psychological effects. They also found that his breaker box was giving off far to much electrical energy than it should, which they discovered could make people see things. And throughout the first season they explained that they can't say whether there are such things as ghosts or not, and that even if they document these things they can't know what it is. But they are all of the opinion that ghosts are real.

If you ever see it on, you might want to give it a watch. Very interesting show.

Palzang

Is that the one on the Sci-Fi Channel?

Palzang

keithg

Palzang wrote:

Is that the one on the Sci-Fi Channel?

Palzang

Yeah actually, although I think Sci-Fi is making them become more gimicky, which is driving me away from the show. Try to watch reruns of old shows.

Palzang

Honestly I don't really watch TV much, but the SciFi Channel is one I'll at least check out to see if anything good is on. I'll keep an eye, as they say.

Palzang

KnightofBuddha

You people actually believe in ghosts? It has always seemed rather silly to me much like the Boogeyman or some other childish ghoul in the closet. I am extremely skeptical of any paranormal claims. They are all just things to scare children (and adults sadly).

keithg

Knight of Buddha wrote:

You people actually believe in ghosts? It has always seemed rather silly to me much like the Boogeyman or some other childish ghoul in the closet. I am extremely skeptical of any paranormal claims. They are all just things to scare children (and adults sadly).

For the record, no I don't believe in ghosts. But I'm open to honest research, and credible "unexplainable" evidence in the fashion that the people on Ghost Hunters do. Plus its entertaining, and they don't hold their electrical sensing devices close to microwaves and say "there are spirits here, it's elvis."

Palzang

Knight of Buddha wrote:

You people actually believe in ghosts? It has always seemed rather silly to me much like the Boogeyman or some other childish ghoul in the closet. I am extremely skeptical of any paranormal claims. They are all just things to scare children (and adults sadly).

You actually believe your mind? :-/

Like I said, I've actually experienced ghosts, and I understand how such a thing can happen. I don't find them scary at all, at least no more than the terror of continuing to live anywhere in samsara. They are beings worthy of compassion, and whenever I hear of one, I do everything I can to liberate them from their circumstances. There are many, many beings in this world other than the ones we can see, you know.

Palzang

KnightofBuddha

No, I don't know. I have never encountered any such being, nor the Boogeyman, or other closet dwellers. I will be the first to admit it if I do though.

Palzang

Have you ever seen a virus? But you do believe in them, don't you?

Palzang

KnightofBuddha

I can see their effects (I have had a few myself). They can be tested and verified. We can know them and see them. To answer your question, no I have not personally seen one. I never saw my great grandfather either.

Palzang

So some things you just have to take on faith, or trust a picture, or whatever with no actual experience of the person or being. You believe in dinosaurs because someone dug some petrified bones and said they were from a long extinct reptile that no living human (or any other human for that matter) ever saw alive. You're basically taking their word for it. But when someone who has seen what we call ghosts, even takes their picture, tells you that ghosts exist, you don't believe it. Why is that, do you think? Do you believe in Buddhas?

Palzang

KnightofBuddha

I suppose for the same reasons you don't believe in Zeus or Allah. You can't see them of course. It doesn't mean they are not there. But they seem impractical and you have not seen proof of them. (or at least proof that you believe)

Ghosts to me suggest a soul floating around. A transparent being flying through the air. If I told you of the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' who lives in my house, would you believe me? I can offer proof. I have a picture of a plate of spaghetti identified as the monster itself. Why doubt me?

I think it would be wise for us to end this arguement now. It seems neither of us will prove the other wrong (or right). So I will leave it at this post and probably not make any more posts on this thread.

Simonthepilgrim

Knight of Buddha wrote:

I suppose for the same reasons you don't believe in Zeus or Allah. You can't see them of course. It doesn't mean they are not there. But they seem impractical and you have not seen proof of them. (or at least proof that you believe)

Ghosts to me suggest a soul floating around. A transparent being flying through the air. If I told you of the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' who lives in my house, would you believe me? I can offer proof. I have a picture of a plate of spaghetti identified as the monster itself. Why doubt me?

I think it would be wise for us to end this arguement now. It seems neither of us will prove the other wrong (or right). So I will leave it at this post and probably not make any more posts on this thread.

KoB, I have added emphasis because I think that you have spotted the important point.

Serious students of these phenomena do not attribute causes because we do not know the causes. They are describing events, just as Newton described the optical phenomena which led him, eventually, to his discovery of underlying laws.

As Palzang says, we believe in the existence of the great saurians because we have manged, after centuries of description, to understand the articulation of some of the bones discovered. Our ancestors believed that the bones belonged to "giants" such as those described in the Bible. We have not always got it right either and palaeontologists have had to resconstruct their models. The same applies in archaeology: when I was a boy, Arthur Evans' description of the ruins at 'Knossos' was deemed correct. We now believe that his 'palaces' were nothing of the sort. Knowledge advances and it needs accurate description of phenomena rather than theories based on little evidence or coincidence.

Palzang

From an ordinary point of view, you're quite right, Simon. However, there is another point of view, call it an extraordinary point of view, that is, the enlightened point of view. The reason I know there are ghosts (or whatever you want to call them) is because my teacher has told me they exist, and she has explained why they exist and what is really going on. I have also known people who have had direct ghostly experiences, including the one I have mentioned on the board here, the guy whose sister died suddenly and didn't realize that she was dead, so she haunted the family residence, trying desperately to make contact.

And it's not a "soul" floating around, KoB; it's a consciousness. Our consciousness does go on beyond death. It's what gets reborn. It's not a soul because a soul, by definition, is a permanent, unchanging entity. Consciousness, on the other hand, is a product of karma and is always changing.

Palzang