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He joined the Marines...oh my god
Sabine
Veteran
This guy that I've liked for a year or so recently told me (in the middle of a study session :P) that he enlisted last month, and he's going to Iraq in March 2008. Granted, that gives me a year and a few months to still hang out with him, but we're both graduating from high school this year, and I really, REALLY like him.
And he doesn't know.
I'm just so torn. Should I even bother telling him that I like him? I'm scared he's going to go off to war and get hurt (god forbid, the other thing), and I'll feel like a crappy excuse for a person. But I'm scared that if I do get up enough nerve to tell him, he'll be totally freaked out because he only thinks of me as a friend. The best thing that could happen is he feels the same way, but that's very unlikely - I'm nothing like any other girl he's ever dated, I'm younger than him, and he just thinks of me as a (somewhat annoying) little sister.
Should I take the risk? I would absolutely hate it if he never talked to me again because I declared my love for him in front of everybody :P
And he doesn't know.
I'm just so torn. Should I even bother telling him that I like him? I'm scared he's going to go off to war and get hurt (god forbid, the other thing), and I'll feel like a crappy excuse for a person. But I'm scared that if I do get up enough nerve to tell him, he'll be totally freaked out because he only thinks of me as a friend. The best thing that could happen is he feels the same way, but that's very unlikely - I'm nothing like any other girl he's ever dated, I'm younger than him, and he just thinks of me as a (somewhat annoying) little sister.
Should I take the risk? I would absolutely hate it if he never talked to me again because I declared my love for him in front of everybody :P
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Comments
But it's important to keep the fact that he joined the Marines firmly in the forefront of your mind. He could die, Sabine, and you have to be prepared for that if it happens. He could also come back physically wounded and the odds are quite high that he will come back emotionally wounded.
Since you're not a kid anymore you also need to look ahead at the "what if's". Like, what if you both fell deeply in love and wanted to get married? Are you prepared for the kind of life a military wife must lead? Or, what if you got pregnant with his child before he left for Iraq and wanted to raise the baby yourself? Are you prepared for what kind of father, if he survives, he would be? I realize this seems like jumping the gun, but before you get involved you need to ask yourself these questions because romantic relationships have a tendency to get sticky.
Whatever you decide, I hope everything works out just the way you need it to.
Much love,
Boo
The thing is that, for my country, while compulsory enlistment comes for all males sooner or later, and it is in the army where the entire country agrees that boys turn into men, we are not sent to fight wars in distant lands for ours is a defence force.
But for the females, while the things they worry about might be different in both our lands, emotionally the things they feel are the same.
The fighting man in my country, upon enlistment, spends two years in boot camp if he graduates after the first three months of the two years of military school as a soldier, although allowed weekends off and the occassional day-off and phone calls. The minority who become army clerks in my country are exceptions from the case, since they are no different from serving what is called "non-combatant conscription". However, though it is not total isolation the guy lives in apart from his girl who waits for him, it is almost an always-true local belief that upon going to the army, all the girlfriends of the guys will leave them.
Thus the emotional baggage of the female is pretty large when the guy goes for military service, as most of her emotional needs fail to be adequately satisfied - like the long hours of chatting the girl seems to like, undivided attention that the guy cannot give because of exhaustion, or even missing the Valentine's Day or birthday when the guy cannot get a day off his military role. In my country, most girls facing this situation usually dump the guy and run off with another who has completed his military stint and can now resume his normal social life.
Therefore, Sabine my friend, if you make a choice, you must be prepared for the consequences that follow, and you must decide where and who indeed does your commitment belong to - and in turn discovering your innate self which you can then start to love. Once you have that in mind, your decision will be the correct one, whichever may follow, for all difficulties as you understand will just seem so impermanent, and you will not disappoint yourself, nor the proud Marine-to-be.
Good luck, Sabine.
"Your resolution must not falter." - Old Major, Animal Farm
Don't die with any regrets.
I would suggest, Sabine, that you practice compassion and patience with your boyfriend. Explain to him how you feel about it without blaming, anger, pointing fingers or anything like that. Do it from an attitude of loving kindness. Tell him your concerns, both with his safety and the war in general. You may not change his mind (probably too late to do that anyway if he's signed the dotted line). You aren't responsible for changing him or anybody, as you can't do it anyway. If he does go to Iraq, do everything you can do to support him (him, not the war). Practice for him and the people of Iraq. Our temple also has a prayer without ceasing website where you can put his name in for prayers to be done for him. It's not like you're completely powerless here.
The other thing to remember is that a lot of guys who go into the Marines all gung-ho and full of themselves wash out of basic because they find the reality doesn't quite meet the fantasy. It looks a lot different when you have a DI calling you a "maggot" right in your face after you just did a 10 mile forced march with full pack! So pray for that!
Palzang
Being in the Gulf of Oman on a US nuclear armed aircraft carrier During The Lebannesse Hostage Crisis
Steve
I too have many reservations against the army.. ppl fantacise about it.. when they clearly don't even have a basic idea of what its about... not to mention many think that using an explosive substance to fire shard's of metal at ppl is glamorous..
i think the majority of ppl who join up have wet dreams about firing a gun.. :P
Those who don't fight, can't be conquered.. lol
Have you enquired behind his purpose to go to war?
Well, obviously, I'm a little biased, but I don't think so. Not to sound to mean, but I'd rather you not refer to him as an idiot, please. I've known him for 6 years, and he's an absolutely brilliant writer/orator. Some of America's soldiers have come back from military service and become known for more positive things (Ernest Hemingway, anyone? F. Scott Fitzgerald?). Don't assume that he's just a stupid wannabe jarhead.
Everyone:
Thanks for your support...I've been thinking about what Brigid (and a few other people) said about all the serious things that could happen in the future (marriage, serious injury, etc.). Of course, I'm 16 - I'm not going to totally devote my life to him just yet, but if he ever needs someone to talk to, I'll be available to him.
He's already expressed concerns about feeling lonely on the field and whatnot, so maybe I'll lend him some of my more serious Buddhist books...he's not really overly religious, but anything that could help him prepare can't hurt.
I've also been thinking of this as a very modern way of "waking up" - I'm a young American girl, going to college, bright-eyed-bushy-tailed, but we all need something to shock us into reality eventually. I guess this is my wake up call?
Who knows.
Anyway, thank you for taking me seriously, everyone.
He's kinda keeping silent about his reasoning behind enlisting, so I don't want to push him just yet. He's been thinking about it for a year or two though, so it's not just a random thing. Considering he's one of the best students in our class, methinks it's going to be a definite career for him, not just a "for-the-heck-of-it" thing.
A few years back a friend of mine joined the military. He was a real good friend, I actually think of him like a little brother. I warned him about all the different things that could or could not happen, and he agreed. But he felt that this was what he needed to do so he did. Luckily he has just wrapped up and is finishing his service in NY but he spent a couple tours in Iraq. He was lucky like I said and made it back, but a couple guys from his group that left for Iraq didn't. It has hurt him quite a bit to have lost them but he knows that they knew they died because of a choice THEY made. THEY chose to go fight, knowing this war was going on. THEY felt that their families and friends must be protected and felt the calling to do that job. It is unfortunate that they past on, but they did what they knew they were going to do. It's not like he (your friend) doesn't know about Iraq, it's everywhere so there's no way he could not know. Regardless of what anyone else is saying the young man is brave for making the decision that he made. If he were stupid or whatever he would have gone along with the pack and became just another person in the masses. But he chose to stand up and fight for what he believed. I'm not sure what he's going in for but hopefully for his sake and yours he makes the right choices while he is there to make sure he comes home. My friend joined because he came from a very poor background and would not have been able to afford schooling and such. In a few months he will have all his college paid for by the military, as well as all the money he saved and any that the government owes him for his VALIANT service.
**In keeping with the thread I deleted part of my post here as it did not have anything relevant to say to Sabine**
Sabine,
Don't listen to anyone here. All we have are opinions. We're not involved with you. We're not involved with this other person. I don't know him and I don't know you. We have nothing at stake if you two get together, if he suffers in the war or dumps you because of how he views the relationship.
You're the only one close enough to make that call. Following bad advice from people who are so far removed from your situation could only bring you hurt and regret for following that bad advice.
Again, if he has to go - I hope he returns safe. If he gets angry for what you say to him - I hope you find peace. If something blossoms from you telling him how you feel - I hope you find peace. If he goes to war - I hope you find peace.
But you're better off not listening to a bunch of strangers when it comes to matters of the heart.
-bf
Wow! Gotta tell you man that you are way out of bounds.
And I'm sorry about the argumentative stuff I said earlier in the thread, Brian - I just got a little flustered
Joining the armed forces and, even, going to war does not automatically mean death or damage, although the chance is probably only somewhat lower than walking alone at night in some of our big cities.
We hear, today, of the death of Captain Kenneth Cummins who was in the Royal Navy in World War I and in the Merchant Marine in World War II - he was 106.
The young man will, I have no doubt, be proud of the choice that he has made and, at the same time, a bit apprehensive. Offer him your support and care. Become the person whose letters, emails, etc. he can count on. If he is worth the great gift of your love, he will appreciate what you are doing and you will make deeper contact with him.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Sabine, I read everyones advice (though aside from the fact that we might be strangers) I must say if you really have true feelings then, there you go, you have your answer.
If he returns your feelings, then you both can find the best course of action.
Anyway, matters of the heart don't wait so stick to your original resolution and not waver.
Good luck and all the best to you.
I too agree with this statement.
My father in-law was a Lt. Colonel in the Marines. He flew in 2 wars and flew 2 tours in Vietnam. He came home. helped finish raising his 5 children and lived a long life.
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
This is the lounge, not "Buddha and the Modern World". A friend asked for help dealing with a situation, not an evaluation of the military, global conflict, and international politics. I don't know what positive goal could possibly be sought by offering the latter instead.
Comments like this may be "honest", but they're also disrespectful, unkind, unhelpful, and unnecessary. This thread was already split once to make this distinction.
If you can't see the distinction, stay out of the thread.
My only worthy contribution is that I've seen the marriages of two friends fail because they married their sweetheart quickly before he shipped out, so I guess my advice is caution. Great relationships can take a long time to develop.
buddhafoot had wise words as usual
If you think there is a distinction, that practice is only something that happens on a cushion in a special room, that we are separate from others, then you have a point. That is not however what Buddhism shows us - we are not separate, our every action has an effect. Not addressing the underlying issue that this guy wants to go and kill people and sees that as okay needs forceful and direct intervention, not pussy footing around in case, heaven forbid, we actually offend a spoilt teenager with no idea what's going in in the world. Perhaps when the Buddha intervened directly to stop others making war, someone should have told him that his actions were 'unecessary' and 'unkind'. As to the idea that those who wish to glorify killing should be respected, that's just bollocks.
Perhaps you'd care to be specific on this point. First of all, let me simplify things for you though. As you have never met me you might want to consider whether what you are talking about is first hand or second hand. Secondly, there are those on this forum who know me well offline and they will be happy to give their experience of me that is based on actually knowing me. Thirdly, I don't have a house, let alone a glass house as I'm homeless and fourthly, my livelihood is teaching meditation and I am involved with an Internet business that sells meditation supplies - all of which fall under right livelihood. Last, I have no personal investment in defending myself. Those who know me, know who and what I am but I am interested in your motivation for making the comment you have and would like to address any possible misunderstanding.
ZM...could you please explain to me...where is the spoiled child? And if there is one, outside of your mind, why would you hit them? The 'use of force' is not always needed.
The problem I have with this, is that this 'spoiled' teenager has left the forum, and is now aversed to hearing the dharma from you and, effectively, the rest of this forum. So, you have failed to prevent this guy from going to war & you have failed to communicate your point to Sabine because you started off with an insult. It's not about pussyfooting or being fluff buddhists. It's about actually affecting the desired change. That's true compassion. You have failed on this account. So, when you speak of cause & effect, I really don't know how you can claim correctness at this point. I don't doubt your good intentions, but that is and never was my point.
metta
_/\_
I was talking about Sabine and her friend. I don't think Kickapoo is related in any way to this, other than getting involved in the convo. BTW, I have no problem with the conversation, just with the initial statement that he is an idiot with no explanation.
metta
_/\_
I'm just trying to follow along here. Zenmonk- are you saying that Sabine shouldn't take the risk and tell this guy that she likes him because he's an idiot for wanting to join the Marines?
Now, you and I have talked in the past about me being slow, so this question shouldn't come as much of a surprise.
Thanks Zenmonk- I appreciate it!
Have we been on topic or not? Some say yes, some say no. Who decides these things- the moderators? If so, where have they been? Have they participated here on this thread? I only know of one moderator for certain, and she didn't participate on this thread.
What do we do now? Go back and forth, back and forth? Is there another option? Don't ask me- remember I'm confused!!! Can anyone help a newbie figure out what's going on around here?
The perspective appreciated from here. Thanks for it.
I can certainly see why you would think that, but I actually wrote a private message to Brian (I think he runs this site) asking him the same questions before making that post. I hadn't received a response from Brian, and so I was hoping that someone else may be able to help me out.
I've also posted on another thread (it may have been the one about the poll and the suggested guidelines) some similar questions. This was over a month ago.
My questions are sincere. I'm sorry that I gave you the wrong impression.
For even as love crowns you, so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth, so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height
and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots
and shake them in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire,
that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you
that you may know the secrets of your heart,
and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if, in your fear,
you would seek only love's peace
and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness
and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh,
but not all of your laughter,
and weep, but not all of your tears...
From The Prophet - Kahlil Gibran
Does that mean that you still think I'm being disingenuous? :sadc: I'm so sorry- what can I say to convince you otherwise?
:sadc:
Don't ever overrule my moderation by appealing to Buddhist practices again as if it somehow trumps what I just said. I do not moderate according to Buddhist practice. I moderate as a bartender; when I say mind your own bowl of pretzels, take a hint and believe that I mean it.
The End.
There are plenty of other threads for you to voice your opinion and ideas in. It was made clear that this was not the one. If you don't like that, tough.