Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
bible/gossip
I was reading through some of the post and there were mentions of the bible,Jesus& the comparison to Buddha.
When it comes to the bible,I think of it this way.
If I tell you a story about a friends activities for the day,you tell a friend,etc.,etc.,just in one year how much of it is going to be factual as told to you.
I don't believe in Jesus or most of the bible and doubt the rest of it.
Sure a person named Jesus may have lived, but the rest of it, LOL
I'm thankful I was introduced to Buddhism by a dear friend. Unlike christianity and the bible,I have so much to learn and a desire to learn.
It goes with my way of thinking.
As far as christians;to each his own.I don't need to "follow"anyone/anything.
Buddhism is just my way of thinking.
When it comes to the bible,I think of it this way.
If I tell you a story about a friends activities for the day,you tell a friend,etc.,etc.,just in one year how much of it is going to be factual as told to you.
I don't believe in Jesus or most of the bible and doubt the rest of it.
Sure a person named Jesus may have lived, but the rest of it, LOL
I'm thankful I was introduced to Buddhism by a dear friend. Unlike christianity and the bible,I have so much to learn and a desire to learn.
It goes with my way of thinking.
As far as christians;to each his own.I don't need to "follow"anyone/anything.
Buddhism is just my way of thinking.
0
Comments
I am a teeny bit surprised that you begin as you do. Are you not going to post similarly in all our fora about Buddhism and other faiths: your comments on Islam, Judaism and Paganism? Are they the same as above and, if so, why not?
With that said,
I have no interest in Islam,Judaism,Paganism,good or bad.
I AM so sick of Christians (there goes that anger feeling) shoving their thoughts down anyones throat they feel they can hold with the clutches of fear.
Every time a christian sins (daily) ask god for forgiveness and it's ok. yuk
This may be because you live in a post-Christian society. Were you to be living under sharia law or aggressive atheism, these would probably disgust you in the same way. Christianity is not what is practised in so many Bible-bashing places: that is a perversion and blasphemous in my not-at-all-humble opinion.
with christians and such, division is a central theme to their entire way of life. Priests, stereotypes.. and the old holier than thou approach.. The whole' i know ppl shouldn't swear and ppl should act this way.. cus my mommy and the bible told me.. But apart from that i don't know why... '
Its fake, we know its fake..
I blame the ppl who believe they belong under 'christianity' for the nazi's.. and anything related to christianity makes me feel like doing the old salute... HEIL CHRISTENDOM! even christmas songs..
cliff richard reminds me of hitler...
i read bits of the bible.. and i could list with some time to think, reasons that are pretty unfallible to why the bible and christianitys definition of god is false.
course islam is the same.. false indentity, and need for social conformity, lack of any form of wisdom.. follow the old man with his book..
whats that saying.. young ppl want to sacrifice themselves for a cause?
only thing ya can do my friend is try and sort out the anger you feel towards them, no matter how hard it is.. it holds you back, and doesn't help. Remember even monkeys are people too.
Many Christians I got to know, especially from the older generation, had a strong sense for justice and caritas, in contrast to the younger generation, wether they talked of loving kindness or not. Religion might less matter than one thinks, and life experiene more on the other hand.
but i've met young uns, american uns, old un's..
Anyone who lives their life in stereotypes... i mean sheeesh.
anyone who stereotypes themselves cannot be counted on, to not judge everyone else. It becomes just more seperation and shunning, more suffering.. If ppl stereotype themselve si don't much trust their judgement.
And if ppl don't ask questions but adhere to be the ideal image of a social group which has more holes in it than my socks.. well
they are humans and should be respected, but i don't trust their judgements, especially if they lecture me..
on either god existing.. (they randomly bring it up in want to convert me) i call that pity.. and therefore more ignorance..
or more subtle things like swear words, manners.. or gods knows what.. coming in late to work..
its like.. religion doesn't fit with anyone, ppl make themselves fit in order to falsify social comfortity. Its lack of thought process, lack of living.. call it what u want.. but its just not real
religion doesn't really matter at all in life, but the image ppl create pretty much is what annoys ppl so much.
If you want a quick lesson, go to Mongolia and see what the so-called Christian missionaries have done there. They're everywhere, and they treat the Mongolians like dirt. They have no respect for their culture, their traditions, or the pain they experienced under 65 years of Communist repression. They lie to the Mongolians, they attempt to buy them with money, they've caused immense suffering, and they've pushed the normally tolerant Mongolians to the breaking point where they're seriously considering expelling the whole lot of them. Especially the Mormons - assuming you even count them as Christians, of course.
Palzang
Do you have a link? I mainly read about conflicts between hindus and christian in India in the last time.
Here's one link: Mongolian Matters (it's written by a Dutch ex-pat, so please excuse the English). Here's another. You can also read my fellow monk's blog from Mongolia where he does occasionally talk about it, Dreaming of Danzan Ravjaa.
Palzang
thus breaking gods teachings.. "all men are equal" "love thy brother" " do not judge others"
thus i herald that real christianity don't really exist, and its a bunch of moutons playing at drag.
Many might denounce this by saying that the Crusades, Inquisitions, witch trials, and torture are just a dark part of the past. This is true, but the unreasonable ideaology proposed by the Church at least is still having disastrous effects in Africa. The Church's adamant stance against birth control is only fueling the spread of AIDS. And this is something we can at least slow down a little with the mass-issue of condoms. Sadly, it won't happen anytime soon.
I know some of the responses to follow will pin me as intolerant and I suppose to an extent that might be true. I am intolerant of irrational, unfounded, unchallenged claims in regards to superstitious beings and ethics. I don't put faith on a pedestal like many others in America do. I see it just as vulnerable to criticism as any entity or philosophy.
I am totally in agreement with you that matters of faith and morals must be available for debate and challenge. those dogmas and, even, doctrines which have outlived their usefulness need to be put aside with a blessing. Simply because a Buddha, a Christ or a Prophet said something does not insulate it from our critical faculty.
What is fascinating is that, from similar data, different people derive different conclusions. No single formula has yet been elicited and none may exist, any more than there may never be a 'perfect' piece of music which, once heard, will make all other music unnecessary. Jesus expressed our longing for that single answer in his one-liner about the pearl of great price. But he leaves us to realise that when we have ditched all the wonders of diversity among the precious jewels, we are left unable ever to make a necklace again.
"In the beginning was the Word" but if it had remained a single word, there would have been no poetry, no fiction, no conversation.
At present, the Christian churches appear to be in a mess. Like the unpopular bully in the playground, enemies and adversaries tend to celebrate. It would be a pity if the churches' behaviour, past and present, were to obscure or obliterate the real spiritual/psychological treasures to be found in their varied traditions.
Yes, it really is big and scary here in America.
The Bible Belt in the U.S. is a lot more widespread and influential than usually depicted. What is considered the Bible Belt is not just a place of widespread Christianity or even widespread conservative Christianity (since both make up a large percentage of our country's population). Rather, it is a place where those beliefs are so militant that non-believers are often forced to keep their non-belief and beliefs secret or face discrimination (which can include job discrimination, social shunning, shunning of children, harrassment, physical threats, etc.). Perhaps because of that secrecy, many extremist Christians believe that their beliefs are indeed the norm or more widespread than they really are, saying that their beliefs represent American culture and therefore they justify their acts against others saying that those others are a minority that are anti-American since they have not "assimilated" into American culture - even those who have been here for centuries. For them, Catholics and Muslims are still foreigners, Wiccans are Satan worshippers, and atheists are Communist spies or worse - and all of them are part of a vast anti-Christian conspiracy (Catholics don't count as Christians for some). In short, it can be a very scary place for non-Christians and even members of some Christian denominations.
Yes, this is for real. I speak from experience, having visited cross states and having lived in a mini-Bible-Belt. You see, these attitudes are not restricted to one area, but surface in many states not considered part of the real Bible Belt. And they are not limited to rural America, though they are certainly more powerful there since they can easily become the majority of an area and take the law into their own hands (literally, seeing as politicians often campaign there using slogans such as "Voice of the People" and quoting scripture on their billboards - even in my own home town). In my own town, I have seen "Turn or Burn" signs in car sales offices, I've seen billboards on private property that said "There is a Hell", and everywhere "Jesus Loves You" signs which are rather ironic when you actually talk to the owners of those signs (not all, of course).
Yes, there are many nice, wonderful Christian people. But the moderate Christians in America are naturally the ones that tend to be quiet because they don't insist on wearing their religion on their sleeves for all the world to see. And many politicians right now fear being called unpatriotic and irreligious because they know that conservative Christian voters do make up a substantial part of the voting population (they tend to come out in droves because they are so very passionate about their beliefs and many retired people are conservative so they have time on voting day to come out).
Because of all this, I have to be very careful whom I tell about my religious beliefs. On the one hand, I want people to know I am atheist and Buddhist because I don't fit people's stereotypes and people generally have a very good impression of me. I think it is important that people see that there are nice people out there with other beliefs. However, I also am aware that being outed to the wrong people could make me a target. I'm not even sure if I want some of my neighbors knowing, and (for more personal reasons) I don't want it getting back to my home town and as a result my family.
It is always interesting to hear a report from someone who actually saw the things. It`s bitterly ironic that the former heretics now call others heretic and the roles changed:)
From what you`ve written, i can understand the bitternes or frustration of some towards christianity better. Must look more where people come from in future. Such things never happend to me.
As for Germany, there being non-christian rarely is an issue. Tensions between catholics and protestants are largely resolved in day to day life, only in very provincial areas you might be asked if you are protestant or catholic by the parents of you partner, but i dare to say it is rather seldom.
In the former east Germany, where atheism was de facto state`s religion, people still show little interest in Religion at all. One might be looked at as irrational if one takes up any Religion at all by many.
In the West, i dare to say it is not an issue, as long as you are not unlucky enough to fall in love with someone particular, some people as said are still very much about Religion, but they are a minority, and christianity is largely influencing social life (holidays, rituals like baptism or holy communion) or running wellfare services for old people.
I am not aware of any fundamentlistic stream in german mainstream christianity, though there are sect like the jehova`s witnesses, but they are not mainstream, they isolate themselves from other christians and the only thing in public life you see from them is that they distribute their own paper(Wachtturm(Watchtower)) and ring the door bells now andthen trying to proselytize people at home, they are not agressive though, "no thank you" is enough for having them going away.
John 14:6 (from the NIV Bible):
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Lovely, huh? This guy thinks that is the way to win a campaign - by pointing out that non-Christians are going to Hell. Fortunately, he didn't win, but I still have to see those billboards when I go through my home town. And I have been unfortunate enough to meet him in person several times. He called me, a stranger and a potential customer, things like "Honey". Ick. I've also been called "Little Lady" (I'm a grown, married woman!), but I don't remember if that was him specifically so I won't accuse him of that even though it sounds about right. I could go on and on about this one guy, but I won't lest someone from back home somehow find this and put the pieces together. Trust me, I have reasons to be paranoid.
over here, we have the CDU, chrstian democratic union. After all, they talk sometimes about christian values but more in a philosophical way and they are "normal" conservatives you find elsewehre too, I would say, Christianity only being a part of what they want to conserve.
We have a very tiny party called "Party of the Bible faithful Christians", who campaign with such quotes you gave. They also make nasty spots about abortion if I remember correctly, but they never were in any parliament. It is very intersting how things differ, although we both fall under category "Western Culture", our perceiving of christianity is probably totally different. I only was in NY until now, that`s my only America, and I know it is a special case
Sad to hear people are so uptight and fanatic about their Religion, but anyways, thanks for giving me another piece to fit into the whole picture. I can only say here you must be lucky if someone gives a damn what Religion you are in and i say this is not the badest thing.
It is a consequence of the contemporary cult of personality which confuses the practitioner with the practice.
We are all living with a geopolitical example of this in our relationship with political Islam: the behaviour of some Western troops is taken to show that all aspects of Western democracy are bad!
As one who uses the term "Christian" as one of the ways to describe myself (along with "male", "Semitic", "ageing", "graduate", "British" along with many other labels), may I say that I find the 'bashing' that is taking place to be inappropriate (another 'label') when we discuss the relationship between Buddhism and Christianity.
One of the most pernicious aspects of late-20th century, literalist Christianity is its proponents' tendency to demonise their opponents. This particular mindset seems to have permeated even its detractors - as we see in this thread.
I have seen and supported people who have been abused and lied to by their parents but who go on to have children; by their partners but have found happy and fulfilling relationships; by the legal system but who still vote. They learn, through the loving support of others, that the example of one or two - even hundreds or thousands - of defective individuals does not make the whole idea of parenthood, marriage, democracy or a particular faith 'bad' or 'wrong' in itself. After all, are you expecting me to conceal from myself that there are abusing Buddhists, lying Buddhists, adulterous Buddhists, plain 'evil' Buddhists?
Here's how it goes for me:
Brought up as a humanistic atheist, I found, in Christian teaching, a call to love and service. The texts of the Gospels spoke to me of self-sacrifice and compassion. I went from church to church, like Diogenes and his lamp, looking for how to put this imperative into practice. From time to time, I would come across one where there was genuine inclusivity and openness. Not perfect, ever, but that was to be expected in imperfect humanity. Then, when I was in my late 30s, along came AIDS and the churches became places of condemnation and ranting. One of my clients, drowned from within by PCP, was refused a Christian burial by the hospital chaplain and statements emanating from Rome, Constantinople and Canterbury, as well as from televangelists, became harsh, ranting and condemnatory. This was not, for me, the message of the Gospels.
Despite this, the message remained but the question arose:
"We are told to love our neighbour, to protect the weak and to be among the marginalised but is this the how of it?"
So I turned my lamp elsewhere. Not letting go of what I had learned, I began to learn the practice and theory of other faiths. In Sufi Islam I found ecstatic love of a Divine which loves us beyond pur understanding but I had difficulty with much of the Quran.
Returning to the Buddhist texts that I had read so many years before and beginning to practise meditation under the guidance of teachers, I found a Way. And it is a way in which I find that I can most genuinely express the practical tenets of Christianity. This is not - and has never been for me - some sort of blind obedience perinde ac cadaver ('corpselike') as so often preached. It is the joyful embracing of a discipline of denial of self, of understanding that the world is full of sorrow and of the passing of time, of hope for a way out of the curses of sickness, old age and death, with a practical guide to how to achieve it.
As I have said elsewhere and time after time, we shall not find the promise nor shall we rest if we hold tight to our grievances and hurts. Christianity and Buddhism look in different directions from the top of the same mountain. They are both "doors", neither is the goal.
I humbly beg those of you who have been abused, whether the abusers were "Christian", "Buddhist", "Muslim", "Republican", "Democrat", "IRA", "UDF" or "humanist", to use the practice to let go of resentment, to find joy in service and peace in your hearts as we all travel, inexorably, towards the grave.
Welcome, Masteravatardavidstar. And don't worry: we have waited 1500 years for Arthur's return, too.
Palzang
and at the same time, you can't talk to them.. be near them or anything.
Christianity does not preach to be open minded.. and thats the problem. Its an inheritance of hate. A huge puss ball. There are nicer parts of it, and nice ppl in it. But the problem is, even then.. they aren't open-minded. They can't see beyond themselves.
I in all honesty apply a bit of a stereotype of no-brain to the christian faith. How can you love ppl if you seperate everyone..
i met a christian on a forum and he was ranting about homo's.. and he was reel angry. I tried talking to them but they started quoting dubious scriptures.. which come more under personal interpretation and can be taken as pro-gay or anti..
i then said.. look dude.. stop with the hate. And he replied he doesn't hate them, he hates what they do..
i then said that.. you want them to live a false life, to screw women.. raise a family and be false. If you are gay, then why would you force yourself to be straight, when this is part of your essence in a way... This is not something you can turn off or bypass.
the truth is, what they define as not hating ppl.. is really a lie. If you hate what they do, you really hate them for it. My problem is that there is no real teachers in the church.. Even though yes priests go to bible school...
this ain't any form of enlightenment.. and they don't conquer their minds.. but live in falsehood. Carry on with speculation and hideous stereotypes and do their hitler impression.
Another problem is division within christianity.. Catholics and Protestants argue a lot over very little.. and i've heard catholics accused of breaking the commandments by worshipping Mary.
Priests in the CofE can't agree on anything either, and bicker amongst themselves in a dodgy poltical way.They have little tiff's on subjects like homosexuals.
With no real teachers, no real authority and so much hate and division.. Christianity is 1 huge ugly mess..
It is the most difficult and challenging task to confront hatred and bigotry, especially when it hides under the disguise of religion and/or the 'flag'.
Of course I understand where you are coming from. Decades of struggling with 'fundamentalist' Christians (whether Protestant or Catholic), Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs, as well as rabid atheists, as advocate for my clients and buddies as an affirmative therapist have, at times, wearied me to distraction. It would be much easier to give in to my anger, sorrow and disgust.
My problem is that each one of these zealots reminds me that they will also sicken and die. They will love and be abandoned. They will all lose that which they hold dear because nothing lasts.
No verse from the Dhammapada speaks to me more clearly than:
"3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred. 4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal."
Nowhere does it say that this is easy, nor that we shall achieve it. All that is asked that we never give up on the struggle.
Don't worry, Celebrin, you will die too, turn to dust, be forgotten as if you had never been.
I mentioned it so that you can take solace in it!
I'm also not convinced that dialogue and understanding is necessarily the best approach to take with such people. Sure, they're ignorant sentient beings trying to find happiness like anybody, but in the end they create immense suffering and are bringing humanity to the brink of extinction (along with their counterparts in Islam and other insensitive tyrants of a more political bent). My Daily Dharma e-mail today had an interesting quote that seems appropos here:
Patience does not mean forbearance in the sense of enduring pain, allowing someone to torture you at his leisure. The bodhisattva would strike down his torturer and defend himself, which is common-sense sanity. In fact the bodhisattva's blow would be more powerful because it would not be impulsive or frivolous. The bodhisattva has great power because nothing can shake him; his action is calm, deliberate and persevering. Since there is space between himself and others, he does not feel threatened, but he is very careful. He scans the whole environment for things which need to be dealt with. Both patience and intelligent caution are operating in no-man's-land. So the bodhisattva can spring out like a tiger and claw you, bite you, crush you. He is not inhibited by conventional morality or idiot compassion. He is not afraid to subjugate what needs to be subjugated, to destroy what needs to be destroyed, and to welcome that which needs to be welcomed.
Chogyam Trungpa, The Myth of Freedom and the Way of Meditation
In other words, compassion doesn't always mean being Mr. Nice Guy. But that doesn't mean you act out of malice or revenge either.
Palzang
On a personal note, the Christian beliefs of my parents have put some major strain on my marraige & have done some serious damage because, ironically, I was too forgiving & put my wife in the way of their harsh judgements. Granted their issues go well beyond their beliefs, but their beliefs are used to justify their offensive & intolerant behavior. I won't get into the details, as they are pretty personal, but I'm left reeling from this whole mess.
_/\_
metta
Precisely. Intention is all. I have met some really compassionate and actively charitable individuals whose personal beliefs are repugnant to me. It isn't what a person believes that matters in the long run, it is how they act towards themselves, others and the world around them.
N1n2: Please do not believe that I am trying to excuse those who behave badly and then justify their actions by scripture (or 'national security'). I have had to talk down a number of suicides, not always successfully: boys and girls whose sexuality or gender make them 'unacceptable' to their parents. I have to admit that I have to stretch my compassion ("feeling with") to its very limits to understand how one can condemn one's own offspring to self-murder.
That is indeed a mystery, Simon. I, however, have first-hand knowledge of situations like that. I was terrified as a teenager to admit, even to myself, that I was gay. And for good reason. One time my mother found a book I had hidden away that made it pretty obvious where my interests lay. She became almost apoplectic, threatened to lock me up in a state hospital if she ever found anything like that again. In those days, the way they treated homosexuality was with lobotomies and shock therapy. I was in absolute terror for my very life. And such a view was supported by the community I grew up in. Homosexuality was not an option. To be labeled as gay meant complete and utter ostracization (did I spell that right?). It was considered worse than death. That experience has left me scarred for life.
And of course it's not just a Christian thing. Even Buddhists have their homophobes. There is a Gelugpa center in Phoenix (where there are very few Buddhist centers of any kind) who basically kicked out a couple of guys I know when the Tibetan lama there found out they were gay. Curiously, the other Gelugpa center there welcomed them with open arms - go figure! But the vehemence of so-called Christian fundamentalists on this issue is alarming. Many want to just kill all homosexuals outright (the Anita Bryant clones). Just look at the nutcase who goes around disrupting military funerals with the justification(?) that the reason these men are dying is because the US is so tolerant of homosexuals! How's that for some logic?
Palzang
Also.. back in victorian days or greek days it was more accepted than now.. baffling
The idea that the US is tolerant of gay men, lesbians, bi-sexuals and those with gender discomfort caused me to choke on my morning cuppa!
Every political discussion that I have ever had with my USian friends has brought us back to the Bill of Rights - and properly, too. So I have often wondered aloud how the persecultion of sexual or gender diversity can be squared with the famous First Amendment.
Perhaps we should found a religion expressly for non-heterosexuals and gender dysphorics, proclaiming that, volo nolo, all such are members of the said religion. Then any persecution would have to be deemed unconstitutional. Can you just imagine the ancient Brethren of the Supreme Court ruling on it? And we could have children suing their bigoted parents.
Unfortunately, as far as I can find, there is no case-law for children suing their parents for infringing their religious freedom or freedom of assembly rights.
If parents cannot incorporate the very foundation of the US state into their own homes, how can we expect its tenets to be followed?
Now I shall go and make myself another cup of Lady Grey tea and attempt to calm myself. There are few subjects that so anger me as much as the senseless oppression of children by their parents for being "different" - as if that makes any difference to our obligations and the love we owe our offspring.
That is truly disgusting. I hope the kid won!
To respond to your comments, Simon, I think the reason you find so many gays who have become Buddhist is exactly for the reason you're talking about. It's a place where they can feel safe (except for a few instances like the one I mentioned, which fortunately are few and far between, it seems) and accepted for whom they are rather than feel obligated to pretend they're somebody they're not. I like the way one of the members at the Zen Community in New York (Zen Mountain Monastery's New York City affiliate, can't remember the name exactly) put it: "For us, it's not even an issue." That is such a rare thing to find in this benighted country!
Palzang
it really gets annoying. Cus i don't have any friends who have bf's.. or want to.. and i have no love of men either... at least not in that way.
homophobia gets to such an extent.. that many are accused on some morons dodgy perceptions. And as such, I probably defend the rights of homosexuals more so because of this.. because ppl continuelly do these sort of things to me and others.
when kids randomly come in and tell you are gay.. its gets a bit tedious..
While I was reading I felt something "click" in me in regards to how I fit with Buddhism, how my personality fits. I know this sounds a little awkward so please bear with me. While I was reading, specifically what Palzang was saying about compassion not always being about pleasantries and niceties, I suddenly felt a moment of peace in myself, in my strong personality. For so many years I've been trying to change myself, improve myself, as if somehow my "being" is fundamentally flawed. And while I was reading I suddenly felt that in Buddhism it didn't matter at all what "I" was, or what I thought I was, or how I viewed my "personality". All of it was a non-issue. I COULD react with strength to injustice. I didn't have to be "nice" about it. I would still have to use all my wisdom and generate as much understanding and compassion as I possibly could, but I didn't have to make striking injustice down a pleasant thing. Every single teaching of Chogyam Trungpa's seems to go straight to my mind's centre of understanding. He always releases something so good in me whenever I read his words. It always "clicks" with me.
And when Simon brought up that part of the Dhammapada I was jumping around in my chair thinking "Yes! I think of that part, too! SO often. It rings in my head over and over as I go through this life".
I'm way off topic, just had to tell you all how great this thread has been for me. I didn't explain it very well but there you are. Great thread, with lots of insight. Thanks!
ppl always concerned with how they come across, and who they are.. and a lot of the time you have trouble thinking who am i?
the whole point of buddhism is not for you to fit into the stereotypes and practises connected with buddhism. But just be yourself.
Cast away all those labels you apply to yourself, that image of tough, or cool.. and just be yourself no matter what.. Just flow.
I had that too.. when I realised that the answer of who I am has been right in front of me.. rather than change me, the teachings are telling me to just be me.
hence one of the lines beneath my name.."To be yourself, put aside who you think you are, and simply flow like water"
Palzang
I'll just not try to try to be me.. or try to be anything else..
dismiss the image's and just flow
:thumbsup:
When you discover what Trungpa Rinpoche calls your intrinsic basic goodness and sanity, then all the rest just sort of falls away. Perhaps the most useful teaching of all that I've received from my teacher, at least in terms of something I use each and every day, is that when an obstacle arises, the only way to deal with it is to go right at it. Just blow right through it using whatever means are necessary. Otherwise it never goes away.
Palzang
It's taken me so long to come anywhere close to getting it, Palzang. Trungpa clarifies things I've been mulling over for years, clarifies them like the sun breaking though the clouds. (You do too, by the way.) All my life I was convinced there was a way out of all this suffering. Utterly, completely convinced. But there isn't. The only way out is THROUGH. Right, straight through. We really DO have to go through hell to get to heaven (as trite as that is). And when it finally started to sink in that it was all self inflicted in one way or another I was reminded of that joke about the guy who goes to the doctor and says "Doc, I have a pain in my arm when I do this." *twists his arm into an unnatural position* And the doctor says "Then don't do that."
I wish that were so. But as we can see here, the scars of bigotry and dangerous ideaology cut deeper than a pain in the arm. I admire the courage you have shown here Palzang, but I must ask, how do you move beyond the kind of pain someone has caused you? Especially people so close to you who are supposed to be there to protect you?
Stories like these along with several books I have read by my favorite author Sam Harris are pointing to the same horrifying truth. Our modern world cannot afford to be so heavilly influenced and socially dependant on such irrationality. The fundamentalists, terrorists, and sexually intolerant parents of the world all share a common trait. The are ignoring the real problems facing the world. They are more concerned about some imaginary sky-god's jealous ambitions than the real suffering of humanity.
We see it all too often. Millions are almost violently opposed to what people would do in the confines of their bedroom (consentingly). Meanwhile, millions more suffer unimaginable pain and anguish due to the spread of AIDS in Africa and HPV in America.
We see it elsewhere as well. Conservatives care so much about a blatocyst (150 strand of cells several days after conception) and the so called sanctity of life. In February, 2003, good God-Fearing conservatives who cared about the sanctity of life abolished the practice of stem-cell research which is perhaps the greatest scientific advancement we have made in the past century. It holds tremendous promise for burn victims, Parkinson's victims and many others. Only a few weeks later, the same conservatives who cared about the sanctity of life happilly marched us (America) off to war.
How can I have respect for this? Fundamentalist dogmatism has it's roots so deep in the social, familial, and political processes of America. You are banned being taught evolution in many schools. You can be jailed your entire life for owning a plant. And in 13 states, it is actually illegal to engage in homosexuality. This should terrify any rational person. This is something out of a movie about Stalin or Fascism rather than the 'land of the free.' I am ashamed to my countrymen who welcome this.
And I also agree with your assessment that the world is in a heap of trouble because of the attitudes people have, like the Xian fundies who are doing their best to kill us all with their stupid little narrow minds. What do you do? I'd say the only thing you really can do is to work on your own poisons. To have even one person who is able to purify his/her own poisons is worth a whole Republican party at least. Eh?
Palzang
I think one of the main things to remember is that everything simply is.. trying to change ppl or expect them to change is just silly.. and even though it pains me to see ppl who act in ways like that.. what can we do?
think about therapists dude.. the crap they hear all day. Its compassionate listening.. Its compassion.. how much love do you have for everyone? everything is beautiful after all...
like when u get angry.. as long as u aware of it.. that ur not thinking clearly in any way.. you can just accept the crap and move on.. when u accept it.. u stop being in conflict.. of course the anger ain't all gone.. but its bliss in comparison to what it was.