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MORE Troops to Iraq???!!!!

edited January 2007 in Buddhism Today
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Bush_Administration

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070110/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_glance_1

Un-freakin' believable!!!

President Bush is a real test to my Buddhist practice. I have a hard time being compassionate towards him!

Comments

  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited January 2007
    Yep. Why am I not surprised?

    Once again a critical failure in accepting the reality of the Iraq situation. When are these political 'leaders' of ours going to realize that large scale non-conventional warfare is unwinnable? Stepping up our presence is simply going to step up the violence. We created a power vacuum which Iranian & Syrian influences have more control over than the inneffectual Iraqi government. The very existence of this government is viewed as a foreign occupation. A similar thing happened in Vietnam, when we decided the reason we weren't winning was because we didn't have enough troops there. We increased our presence & still failed miserably. Substantial increases in troop numbers didn't work then & it won't work now.

    Sorry but the blatant incompetence & flat out lies committed by this administration just make me cringe. BTW, speaking of Iran, does anybody know that they were in fact the most progressive Islam nation in the region & had a Western friendly president not so long ago. So, how did we end up with a Radical Muslim president & a nuclear standoff? Well, you can give W all the credit with his infamous 'axis of evil speech' and subsequent illegal invasion & takeover of a sovereign nation (which happens to be Iran's neighbor).

    *rrrrgh*

    How many people are going to have to die because of this government's outright foolishness???

    metta
    _/\_
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited January 2007
    YogaMama wrote:
    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Bush_Administration

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070110/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_glance_1

    Un-freakin' believable!!!

    President Bush is a real test to my Buddhist practice. I have a hard time being compassionate towards him!

    Saddam was my test.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2007
    I imagine that we shall see a new policy unfold across the next few days. It is now (10 a.m. GMT) only a few hours after the speech but there have already been military attacks on Iranians.

    This suggests a worrying thought. I hope that it will be shown to be unfounded. I shall love to be wrong.

    The thought is that the present Administration no longer has anything to lose. They are holed up in the Alamo. They are in 'legacy' time: their last actions will be the ones that history remembers. They are. also, the only ones with the authority to enact decisions and they are stuck with the responsibility: to mix my metaphors, the buck has come home to roost.

    Is it a case of Après moi, le déluge? Is it a 'Samson' moment? Will they make a desperate attempt to collapse the temple of the 'axis of evil'?

    There was a time when I got very angry at the President and his court. I see a new imperialistic arrogance which appears far removed from America the Beautiful that I was raised to admire. I accuse myself of having taken some schadenfruede from the gradual revealing of the duplicity, lies and greed by our leaders.

    But..........

    I think we have entered a new stage in this war. Whatever the reasoning, whatever the positive intention, more military on the ground means escallation.

    I have just listened to the speech
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6250625.stm
    and my emotions are very mixed. Whatever the rights and wrongs of how we got here, here is where we are. To me it may seem as if the new strategy is trying to get out of a hole by digging deeper but I heard his challenge: if there is another way, it is up to those of us who propose it to show its potential to reach the desired objective more effectively.

    I have real questions about the outcomes that are targeted. What do we mean by a 'free' nation? Can a 'free' nation be allowed to use its freedom to become our enemy?

    Isn't this the very problem that each of us, as parents, face with our children: we teach them that freedom is the highest good; we teach them to revere freedom of speech - and then, when they turn round and tell us that we are ..... whatever abomination they think we are ............ we get terribly upset. Just because they are putting into practice what we have taught them.

    More troops in Iraq. More 'advisors' around the region. A battle group heading into the Gulf. Increases in the armed forces. Can these truly be steps towards peace?

    Listening to the President's speech, I noticed two things. He only made one reference to a Deity (uspecified and only described by an attribute) and he slipped in a worrying comment about political control in Iraq. The first, the absence of Christian vocabulary, made the speech easier to hear and, I imgine, was carefully crafted not just for home consumption but for Islamic ears everywhere.

    The comment about political control came when he was speaking about retaking Baghdad. He said that political interference would not be tolerated. Does that worry you as much as it does me?

    In terms of the Noble Eighfold Path, I think that the Administration and our Government have strayed so far from it that even attempts to return to it will result in the waters closing over their heads (and, possibly, ours too) before ever regaining the Path.

    I also thought that the President is looking very old and haggard.They all age so much in that office. And we dump so much onto them. What, in the name of all the Compassionate Buddhas, do we think we are doing, heaping so much power and responsibility onto a single person or, even, so small a group? We put them there, we pay their salaries and provide their housing: ultimately, it you and I who bear the responsibility and we have made ourselves powerless to exercise it.

    What strange creatures we are!
  • edited January 2007
    YM,
    I totally agree with you. He makes it very hard to have compassion for him. But I continue to remind myself of Karma. What he is doing to his Karma is scary. When I think of that then I can START to have SOME compassion for him. It's hard work in progress.

    I just watched the democrats response just a few minutes ago. Because of the last election they are back in control. Thank goodness. They will form a new plan and if that does not shut him down they are planning to pass new legislation to stop funding for the new 20,000 troops he is planning on sending over. So lets pray they succeed.
  • edited January 2007
    I am so happy that the Democrats are back in charge. I sure hope some good comes of it. I heard someone say something today that struck me. Why is our President so interested in helping the people of Iraq, but he has no interest in helping the people of Darfur? One word....OIL.
  • edited January 2007
    Yes, sad to say there is only one word and you're right it's.......... OIL
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited January 2007
    YM,
    I totally agree with you. He makes it very hard to have compassion for him. But I continue to remind myself of Karma. What he is doing to his Karma is scary.


    Unfortunately it's our karma too.

    The good news is almost no one is listening anymore. MSNBC played a series of clips on W's speeches about Iraq starting with the first in 2003. It was remarkable. In this speech he looked like a whipped dog trying to figure out how to get the heck out of a very, very bad place. It seems like the Demos will do their best to stop this "surge" (what a euphemism!) from ever getting off the ground, though their power to do so is limited. One of the most ironic points made by the talking heads after the speech was that we're supporting the same side (the Shi'ites) in Iraq as Iran is! So why are we at such odds? And the other point that was made was even if Bush's doomsday scenario of the Middle East exploding into regional war with Iran, Saudi Arabia, and all the rest rushing in to pick up the pieces from a disintegrated Iraq after the US pulls out is true, nothing we are doing will prevent that anyway. All we're doing is prolonging the inevitable at the cost of many American lives (and who knows how many Iraqi lives).

    Palzang
  • edited January 2007
    I find this whole mess heart breaking.......

    As for his speech. He may have looked like a whipped dog but I thought he looked like a whipped dog that was working very hard on just READING his speech. But then to be honest I didn't watch the whole speech. He makes me way to angry. I stopped and pulled up the Democrats response. So in all fairness......maybe later on in the speech he looked more like he was giving a speech and not just reading it......don't know
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited January 2007
    Yes, he really was more wooden in his delivery than usual, which is saying a lot. He honestly looked like someone who didn't have a clue. Really quite pathetic. And now even the members of his own party are deserting him as fast as possible like rats off a sinking ship. I honestly don't think he'll last the remaining length of his term. At the very least he has no political currency to spend anymore, so he'll be a 2 year lame duck prez.

    Palzang
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2007
    Did you notice that he spoke in the passive, "Mistakes were made", and never acknowledged the he might have been the one making them?
  • edited January 2007
    Palzang wrote:


    Unfortunately it's our karma too.


    I was going to say the same thing.....It's not just HIS karma that he is messing with!
  • edited January 2007
    Did you notice that he spoke in the passive, "Mistakes were made", and never acknowledged the he might have been the one making them?

    Sadly, that is how he always speaks, Simon.
  • edited January 2007
    YM,
    I totally agree with you. He makes it very hard to have compassion for him. But I continue to remind myself of Karma. What he is doing to his Karma is scary. When I think of that then I can START to have SOME compassion for him. It's hard work in progress.

    I just watched the democrats response just a few minutes ago. Because of the last election they are back in control. Thank goodness. They will form a new plan and if that does not shut him down they are planning to pass new legislation to stop funding for the new 20,000 troops he is planning on sending over. So lets pray they succeed.


    I think it is better if one has compassion for oneself first like the Buddha has advised us to do. I don't think he (Bush) was asking for sympathy or compassion from the American people. He reminds me of an alcohol addict who admits that drinking is bad but he/she is not going to stop it. What can compassion do for the people like this?. Please understand that I believe in redemption but it has to come from within the person and that way, he/she is genuinely changed. BTW, real compassion comes from having Wisdom (Prajna) first. It is not like having pitiness for someone



    SG
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited January 2007
    Compassion, as i understand it, is the direct perception that a being is suffering along with the genuine desire to relieve that suffering. So, I agree that prajna is necessary for such a thing. However, it would almost seem you are advising us not to relinquish emnity & anger towards others here. As enmity & anger are defilements, I don't see any good reason to not to do so. While starting with oneself is a way of recognizing the similarity of conditions between ourselves & the person we dislike, and makes it easier to generate compassion towards that person, I don't see how what YM was saying goes against this. I apologize if I read too much into your statements.

    Anyway, here is an excellent sutta reference which relates to this:

    AN 5.161
    Aghatavinaya Sutta
    Subduing Hatred


    "There are these five ways of subduing hatred by which, when hatred arises in a monk, he should wipe it out completely. Which five?

    "When you give birth to hatred for an individual, you should develop good will for that individual. Thus the hatred for that individual should be subdued.

    "When you give birth to hatred for an individual, you should develop compassion for that individual. Thus the hatred for that individual should be subdued.

    "When you give birth to hatred for an individual, you should develop equanimity toward that individual. Thus the hatred for that individual should be subdued.

    "When you give birth to hatred for an individual, you should pay him no mind & pay him no attention. Thus the hatred for that individual should be subdued.

    "When you give birth to hatred for an individual, you should direct your thoughts to the fact of his being the product of his actions: 'This venerable one is the doer of his actions, heir to his actions, born of his actions, related by his actions, and has his actions as his arbitrator. Whatever action he does, for good or for evil, to that will he fall heir.' Thus the hatred for that individual should be subdued.

    "These are five ways of subduing hatred by which, when hatred arises in a monk, he should wipe it out completely."

    best wishes & metta
    _/\_
  • keithgkeithg Explorer
    edited January 2007
    YogaMama wrote:
    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Bush_Administration

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070110/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_glance_1

    Un-freakin' believable!!!

    President Bush is a real test to my Buddhist practice. I have a hard time being compassionate towards him!
    I recommend just thinking about how all this stress is effecting his health. Hes not the only one making the decisions, hes also somewhat of a figurehead. I noticed when he was giving his last speech he looked really stressed out, it's too bad.

    Edit:
    Some related optimism for all of you that I have been reading recently: Systemic Flaws In the Reported World View, Generation Next (Information about people aged 16-25 in the U.S. and their beliefs, points of view etc.)
    Paradoxically, one of the biggest reasons for being optimistic is that there are systemic flaws in the reported world view. Certain types of news — for example dramatic disasters and terrorist actions — are massively over-reported, others — such as scientific progress and meaningful statistical surveys of the state of the world — massively under-reported. ....
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