It's hard not to believe in God

becomethesignal

Not that I am necessarily trying to disbelieve in some kind of supreme being, but while growing up in a Christian home I have had many, many thoughts and beliefs embedded and engrained in me. How to escape such things and live a free life? Fear is what we are taught at a very young age, even if that is not the intention. Telling someone they are going to hell if they don't believe a certain way is about making them afraid so that they will conform to a certain way of believing and acting. It is more difficult for so many of my friends and I to not believe in God, then it is to doubt its existence.

I don't know how to get through this. Often I have said that I believed in God because it felt true to my spirit. In reality most of my belief may come from fear. So, I conclude that, for the most part, I believe the way I do because of the fear that has been instilled in me. If I don't think or act a certain way or atleast have some of the "foundational beliefs" then I don't feel as though I can live in peace. That is what I desire: inner peace. The first step for me, at this point, is to acknowledge that I can live a life of freedom to search, believe, think and act as I would. Yet, I still feel it impossible to do when I have the nagging "voice of God" in the back of my mind. I don't know what the hell to do. I have a lot of anger against the church and many average conservative Christians. I think that this stems from my unsettled mindset. I think that since I don't have peace about my personal beliefs that I tend to show anger toward those who caused this fear inside me. It's not anyone's fault, particularly, especially Christian people whom I have not met. I needn't take my frustration out on these people, but what can I do to be free of my burden? How do I seperate my conscience and spirit from the bullshit conscience that others have placed within me? It is very difficult to decipher between what is true to me and what is true to me because of fear. God may exist, I may truly believe in such a being, but how can I ever really know? I am searching for truth, wherever that may be found and I feel that it is imperative to stop believing in God (or atleast the fear of god) in order for me to feel free to make my own choices and decisions. Any ideas would be most appreciated.

federica

BTS, leave it aside. Don't let it hang weighty upon your shoulders. You need to be good to yourself and give yourself a break. When asked, just tell people your own internal Jury are still out on this one, and probably always will be. It's one of the Imponderables, if you like.
There is nothing in Buddhism which compels you to turn your back on a belief in god, save your own incentive, investiation, questioning and quest. The only person giving you a really hard time, is you.
As an ex-Catholic, I understand where you are coming from, because I, like many, have trodden the place you tread right now.
I'm not going to offer personal experience, or opinion, because I am me, and you are you.

Suffice to say, if you really need an answer, it will come to you one day, maybe even unbidden. If it doesn't, just live your Life as well as you are able. The rest will look after itself.

With Metta and blessings.

Fede

Celebrin

way i see it God has no flag, The main links concerning God and main images of him, his wisdom,generosity,his temper, his image, the trinity..

All of the information gathered is stereotypes. And God is beyond those, he is incomprehensible.

Consider a flower, its true nature and the truth behind it is nothign to do with the word flower.. Thats a label. Without the name you can see what it really means to you.

God has no name, he has no flag, he no preference definable by words.

Take away all the preconcepts of God given to you from childhood, and what are you left with?

this is 'gods' most true image.. relise you made his image in the first place, it was never gods

Simonthepilgrim

Becomethesignal, fellow sufferer,

May I share one way in which I deal with much the same disturbance?

It always a good idea to try and begin within the fantasy out of which the disturbance arises, thus I use a Christian scripture as a starting point: the text in John's letter that God is love.
From there I move to noticing that the disturbance is critical rather than loving.
It follows, therefore, that the disturbance is a "desolation" or, to put it another way, it is not in line with God, who/which, being love, is generous and open rather than mean and closed.
Because simply noticing this is usually not enough to still the disturbance completely, I have to follow it by a period of silent, centred breathing focus.

That done, the disturbing thoughts have evaporated. They may come back - and they have, over the years - and the more they have, the stronger my sense that they are nonsense has grown out of deeper and deeper engagement with the original, God is love statement.

Simonthepilgrim

P.S. The next step, letting go of worrying about 'God', is easy after that beacuse God, if God is, can look after God's own self.

becomethesignal

Thank you all. It is true, as I stated, that I need to be able to let go. That is the most difficult part. To seperate myself from all of the ideas and notions and restraints that have overcome me. If God exists, no one can really know "him". That is how I see it anyways. Simon, what you've said puts new light on the subject. If God is Love then this suffering and disturbance would not be from God. Thank you very much.

Brigid

If God is Love then this suffering and disturbance would not be from God.

I think that sounds very right, BTS. And remember to treat yourself with that love, compassion and empathy because you so richly deserve it.

Nirvana

Becomethesignal,

If there is a God, you are one of his most excellent thoughts.

If there is no God, then Is he one of your excellent thoughts, or not? That is perhaps the most important existential question on the God Question??? I only ask.

I realize there's a middle ground: God:Yes; You think:No God. But if that's the case, Simon's thinking seems very right. (Of course, the Pilgrim's thinking always seems right to me, so what do I know?) GOD can take care of himself.

BTW, I can really relate to your "position" , but time is the great healer. You're still very young, May the Power Be With You!

Simonthepilgrim

Sorting through my pile of back issues of Tricycle magazine, I came across an interview, from the Fall 2003 issue, with Don Cupitt, the radical Christian theologian. I thought that his opening remarks are useful and summarise part of my own position into the bargain:

Although I've been temperamentally religious all my life, my philosophy of religion turned critical with the publication of Taking Leave of God [Cupitt published this book in 1980. It is still in print]. I argued that we should regard God not as a metaphysical being, an infinite spirit, but rather as a guiding spiritual ideal by which to orient one's life. This idea of God was explicitly put forward by Kant, and arguably has always been present in the Lutheran tradition..........

......perhaps the best way to interpret Christianity is to say that Christians see in Christ that ideal embodied in a human life. So I demythologize the idea of an incarnation of God in Christ into the idea of embodiment of Christian values in Christ, in his teaching. I see Christianity as a spiritual path in which one pursues various values, tells certain stories, follows examples that in the end go back, chiefly to Jesus of Nazareth.

ECM

You are all such wonderful thinkers. I am glad I got back on line - Hello everyone.

I agree with you all too - and one of the things that helps me the most is moving away from thoughts of God as "some thing" to God as more like a "process" - like Love, which is a little different from an "ideal", although that is a helpful way to think about it too - If God is embodied in the process of the world, and especially in Jesus, we can come closer to this process by connecting with Jesus' ideals, love, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, generousity, patience, etc. - especially his view that God is not bound in "religious law" but in the deepest spirit of people, which is basically good. If the religious law or religious culture goes against these ideals/processes, then it isn't "from God", but from ignorance.

That also relieves the notion that one religion is superior to another - because the "process" that is present in us all, defined in our cultures a little differently for each one depending on their cultural norms, but basically the same, each religion emphasizing one aspect or another, more or less. I know it is hard to think of God as a process, at least it was for me for a while, but in the end, I have found this way of thinking to be most fruitful.

One thing I like about this is that it clarifies Jesus too - these ideals/ processes that are present in Jesus are God's presence/process more clearly shown - and especially for the people in that time, who were bound up in all the legalities of being Jewish at that time (2000 years ago) in the Palestine area. It is instructive to look at what "the law" was -- mountains of legalities, including whether you should break a flour jar if a certain sort of lizard fell in it, or if you had a pink pimple on your forehead or a red one, were you clean or not? And if not, what you had to do - sacrifice pigeons or lambs, or do ritual bathing.

I have a great book to suggest you find that helped me a lot is:
Good Goats by Matthew and Dennis Linn. It is all about God, and is a riot - and very serious and deep all at the same time. I am sure you would enjoy it immensely. They have it at Amazon.com

There are lots of people who understand God and the spiritual life in ways different from your home church. It sounds like their thinking was a little boxed up. How wonderful that you question it. Questioning is essential to a sane life! Thanks so much for sharing with us.

Grace, peace and light to you!
EM

federica

Hello ECM, nice to have you back with us, great to 'see' you again!

ECM

Thanks! I am enjoying the posts. Good to "see" you too! And everyone else too!
EM

becomethesignal

I, too, haven't been able to come here as often as I'd like. I've been overly busy.

Thank you ECM. What you said about god being more of a process makes sense to me. I hadn't thought of it in that way before.

A while ago I decided to jot down my thoughts and questions (as I am still doing) and eventually turn it into a book. I plan to entitle the book, "The Three Myths" referring to people's perceptions of God, the Church, and the Bible. I've really enjoyed collecting my thoughts on these subjects. This will, by many of the people I know, be considered a very controversial book. So, I have decided that I shall use a fake name and not tell my parents or others close to me that I have written this book. If some of my relatives knew, it would probably hurt them deeply. I have suffered all too much from the perceptions that were given me by others. It is time to have my own.

I have felt comforted these last few days and I owe it to all of you who've responded. Thank you and I hope the best for you all, regardless of what that means

Xrayman

BTS,
I'd like to proofread that for you-free of charge to you, when you have finished the first draft-I expect it will be very interesting!


Cheers,
Xrayman

becomethesignal

Xrayman wrote:

BTS,
I'd like to proofread that for you-free of charge to you, when you have finished the first draft-I expect it will be very interesting!


Cheers,
Xrayman

That would be amazing!
I am giving it a lot of thought and time. I still have much to write and research and other books to read as guides but when I do finish it, I will certianly send you a copy of the rough draft.

Xrayman

you can send me what youve written so far if you'd like! but if you are anything like me, you HATE anyone seeing what's half way written-its like exposing a hideous deformity, from beneath your clothes.

cheers.

ECM

Back from the weekend -- (Why are we so busy???)

Your book sounds like it will be great. I am looking forward to reading it too!