Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
My view of death.
Jason
God EmperorArrakis Moderator
Everyone,
As with most Eastern philosophies and religions, Buddhism does not view death as the final end of phenomena. In Buddhism, only nibbana is said to be the final end of phenomena in regards to the arising and ceasing of beings (AN 10.58). According to the teachings on dependent co-arising, if there are sufficient conditions present, those conditions will inevitably result in future births (SN 12.35). Moreover, future births will inevitably result in future deaths. Whatever is born must pass away, and that process is inherently stressful.
Death is a subject that most people fear or simply avoid contemplating, but death is important to me because I am of the conviction that we are not limited to only one in our so-called existence (SN 15.3). It is also important because for the most part, we are completely unaware of when it will happen. Our time here is short, and there is much for us to do before that time has ended (Ud 5.2). The passing of beings out of the various orders of beings is important because with the arising of birth, there is the arising of aging and death (MN 9).
We all must face this frightening and often painful experience countless times, and for that reason alone it is worthy of our attention. It is only with the cessation of birth that there is the cessation of aging and death, and being mindful of death leads one to heedfulness—to developing mindfulness for the sake of ending effluents of the mind (AN 6.19). Moreover, when mindfulness of death is developed and pursued so that it is of great fruit and great benefit, it gains a footing in the Deathless, and has the Deathless as its final end (AN 6.20).
Sincerely,
Jason
As with most Eastern philosophies and religions, Buddhism does not view death as the final end of phenomena. In Buddhism, only nibbana is said to be the final end of phenomena in regards to the arising and ceasing of beings (AN 10.58). According to the teachings on dependent co-arising, if there are sufficient conditions present, those conditions will inevitably result in future births (SN 12.35). Moreover, future births will inevitably result in future deaths. Whatever is born must pass away, and that process is inherently stressful.
Death is a subject that most people fear or simply avoid contemplating, but death is important to me because I am of the conviction that we are not limited to only one in our so-called existence (SN 15.3). It is also important because for the most part, we are completely unaware of when it will happen. Our time here is short, and there is much for us to do before that time has ended (Ud 5.2). The passing of beings out of the various orders of beings is important because with the arising of birth, there is the arising of aging and death (MN 9).
We all must face this frightening and often painful experience countless times, and for that reason alone it is worthy of our attention. It is only with the cessation of birth that there is the cessation of aging and death, and being mindful of death leads one to heedfulness—to developing mindfulness for the sake of ending effluents of the mind (AN 6.19). Moreover, when mindfulness of death is developed and pursued so that it is of great fruit and great benefit, it gains a footing in the Deathless, and has the Deathless as its final end (AN 6.20).
Sincerely,
Jason
0
Comments
"Make the day not-in-vain, a little or a lot. However much the day passes, that's how much less is life. Your last day approaches. This isn't your time to be heedless." (THAG 6.13).
Thank you!
Bunny_Here
P.S. My view of death- "One sees the death of the flowers, of the leaves of the trees, and the end of the day. And yet, one looks forward to the blooming of the flowers once again, the budding of the trees, and the dawn of the following day...One makes little distinction between life and death, and only resides in one’s innate Buddha nature." (O-Bon Special Service, Rev. Zenku Smyers).
But alas, I don't believe in God, heaven, or any better place. This is as good as it gets. This is the best time. The only time as far as I am concerned. Flirting and romanticism are all a fun part of life for me now.
Death is annihilation of everything. Thinking anything else for me at least is just mere hope. And I have never been a big fan of hope. Life seems a little more precious if there is only one.
In reality, of course, dying is a process that begins with birth and in which we are involved at each moment. We conceal this reality from ourselves by telling ourselves stories but which continues minute by minute.
Modern scientific medical practice has made it harder and harder to identify the 'moment' of death, as we know.
Personally, I have found that an understanding of dying-as-process removes much of the emotional overlay of my own death, although the absence of family, friends, etc., remains.
http://www.boundlesswayzen.org/teishos/tarrantteisho/tarrant-bcr55.html
There's a lot more commentary on the link, and it's worth the read, IMO. Hope you all find some value in it.
metta
_/\_
I can understand you on that I believe. Personally, I was so obsessed in finding truth that I forgot how to do everything else (i.e. to live). The more pressure I put on me, the more I suffered. That very suffering for me is the reason for the quest, I cannot imagine philosophy if all were immortal, had no sorrows and all wishes would be fullfilled instantly. But then again, from my today`s perspective, my method was self-defeating in the light of the Dharma because it added more suffering and did not reduce it. But I don`t regret it since it made me grow, or at least I hope so
metta
_/\_
Death is general is an unanswerable, so there is no real question as i see. But of course you'll keep wondering. And as KOB said.. you only get 1 life.. its true.. this body/ this moment is singular which makes it so beautiful.. Life simple is..
The last obstacle, along this walk, was a wall. I found this difficult to define...nail down. At first, I saw it as impenatrible (sp?)...to tall and wide to see what was on the other side. Yet, somehow comforting...as it was solid and to my back. Oddly, at the next moment I envisioned it as a 'nice' country stone wall...the kind one would encounter in some pleasant countryside (think....Middle Earth). I could simply sit on it, swing my legs over...and continue on with my walk. I got the definite sense that when I was ready, when it was time/right...that that solid wall would simply change...and I'd continue my journey.
The 'answer' provided later was that this wall was a metaphor for how we view death.
Mentally:
Death is not the end, just the end of "I".
"I" is an illusion to begin with.
Physically:
We're all on our way to being something else's food, but on the other hand, we are already food factories.
----
But yeah, I don't want to die. I like this life for better or worse - and it's been a lot of worse lately. I like being conscious and I strive to be more conscious. I hate sleeping and maybe that's why I am a chronic insomniac (well, that and a few physical ailments). I'm even scared of death, even though I don't think there is anything to come. And if death is the end of consciousness, I shouldn't be scared because there is literally nothing to fear. It's not like I'll wish I were alive, because I won't even know I'm dead. And I think of all the other people and creatures that have gone before me and maybe that makes it more o.k. I think of all the other people out there thinking about death (though we rarely realize how much others do think about it), and I feel a bond with the rest of humanity. Most of all, though, I think of my best friend and roommate who died last month and I realize that even if we follow all the rules and take care of ourselves and drive safe, it can still come at anytime whether we are ready or not. So, maybe there is no point in being ready, or wondering, or caring about it. Que será, que será.
But I still lie in bed every night thinking that she should be on the other side of that wall trying to sleep, too.
- Francesco Dellamorte
Palzang
Palzang
I guess I'm just confused because all of that sounds like a plan that someone laid out. If so, then whom? This thread probably isn't the place for these questions, though.
Palzang
Whilst I am not sure that the notion of kamma/karma suggests any sort of plan or planner, I can understand why it may appear so. Those of us who have grown up within a monotheistic tradition with its concept of a "Creator" find it hard to see patterns without imagining a 'planner'. The fact is, of course, that human beings are 'pattern hungry': our senses organise their inputs in such a way that we impose patterns where there may be none in reality. This is the way in which we 'make sense' of the world around us. It may be a survival instinct which enabled us to distinguish that that shadow, over there, is a threat, something with teeth and claws which is looking for its lunch.
Another problem arises from the importance we place on empiricism and the scientific method. This is what Wikipedia says about scientific method: It must be obvious that karma/kamma has not yet been subjected to reliable scrutiny by this method. It is proposed on bases of 'logic' or 'faith' but without a clear methodology for investigation. The same holds true for any notion of personal survival after death. Indeed, most research into the subject turns out to be negative.
Despite this, there is clear evidence that actions in one generation can have effects on following generations. This is what we discern in history. At the personal level, it is like inheritance: sometimes it can solve debt problems, sometimes it makes them worse! If we see karma/kamma at this level, it is self-evident: overcultivation turned the Sahara into a desert; CFCs contibute to the hole in the ozone layer; smoking tobacco disposes to lung cancer; etc.
It has to be acknowledged that there are strands within Buddhism which have continued the earlier concept of personal survival-by-rebirth. If what you want is empirical, scientific evidence for this, you will look in vain. You will find anecdotal evidence but little that is reliably replicatable in a laboratory.
Which doesn't make it untrue.
Putting aside the question of what happens to a person after death for a moment, I would not be so quick to say that kamma is proposed on bases of 'logic' or 'faith' but without a clear methodology for investigation. It might not be presented in a way that entirely conforms to today's version of the scientific method, but there are plenty of places where the Buddha suggested ways in which to test these teachings in the here and now. In MN 61, for example, the Buddha gives a very simple yet detailed explanation/empirical experiment regarding the law of kamma to his son Rahula.
In this way, intentional actions and their results can easily be observed, documented, and reproduced in order to satisfy the most scientifically minded practitioners. When it comes to kamma and rebirth, however, that is certainly a little harder to scrutinize due to the immaterial nature of experiences within jhana (meditative absorption). I suppose that one could measure brain-waves and such, but that cannot verify nor refute said experiences. In any event, it is my view that the majority of the Buddha's teachings are not as abstract as they might initially appear to be.
Jason
In my conversation with HHDL, the subject came up and he agreed that we do not appear to be in a position to set up a verifiable 'scientific' approach to the subject. He also agreed that, until such time as the matter was unproven, it could be believed or not.
Perhaps, but are not skillful and unskillful actions of body, speech, and mind what constitute kamma? While discernment is indeed an important part of this exercise, it seems to me that discernment is important mainly because it is needed for comparing the results of our skillful and unskillful actions to the afflictive and non-afflictive consequences of those actions. In other words, I believe that discernment is taught to Rahula as a tool for systematically observing kamma in regards to "ethical behavior", and in the process, understanding how it works for the practical use of putting an end to suffering. Even though what we have here appears to be an ethical discourse to a young child, there is an underlying framework that details a systematic methodology for observing and understanding the law of kamma.
Jason
I certainly agree with you that there is very little scientific research being done in the area of life after death, rebirth, et cetera. Unfortunately, I feel that this is mostly the fault of the mainstream scientific community, which for whatever reason seems to thumb their collective noses at that sort of research.
Very few scientists are able to get funding for this type of research, let alone are taken seriously whenever they propose such studies. The few who have endeavored to explore these questions have met with a great deal of scorn and criticism. Ajahn Brahmavamso talks a lot about this subject in his Dhamma talks.
Jason
Palzang
With deep respect, Palzang-la, this may appear to be so but it misses the point. Colour can be described to a blind person. They would not experience the sensation/interpretation of the colour but they can learn about the physics of light which describes it more exactly than simple 'seeing'. The same is true of the aspects of the world that are beyond our senses, the subatomic for example. This is precisely why Dalton, despite being colour-blind, could determine the mechanism of 'daltonism'. Scientific enquiry does not rely on our senses. If it did, we would still be thinking the sun goes round us or other errors resulting from simple observation.
So if mind is a product of ego-clinging, how can we ever hope to comprehend our non-dual, primordial nature? Simple - by forgetting the self!
Palzang
Scientists are just beginning to look into contemplative mental states. But they probably won't be commenting anytime soon on things like the afterlife. We are just coming out of the cave when it comes to understanding the mind, least of all the next life.
Palzang
The example that I find illuminating is that of the awareness and description of colour-blindness which went unnoticed in general until the advent of the railways and the need to distinguish between red and green signals. My impression is that there is a greater and greater awareness of a need which could be called "spiritual", going beyond the pragmatic and empirical. The religions are desperately trying to define and fill this need. They will fail, I think, because they have spent their spiritual capital and debased their coinage.
Death, and people's fear of it, may be the catalyst that empowers the paradigm shift that moves us forward again. I recall that one history teacher, showing us the extraordinary socio-religious transformation wrought in England by the Redormation, pointed out how the years of work by the Reformers was enshrined in a renewal of the language. Having exchanged Latin for English, they were able to persuade the majority that the new spirituality would still "get them to Heaven".
Heaven may no longer be a persuasive issue for people today. It seems to me that HHDL, primus inter pares (Latin for "first among equals", one of the Pope's titles !!), expresses the contemporary need: the need for happiness. When spiritual happiness can be expressed in a language that people understand and believe, the shift will occur.
We have more than just the English example, of course, the development of German and of Tibetan appear to have had a similar interdependence with generalised spiritual renewal. Even the Greek and Latin languages were transformed by and transformative of Christianity.