Proud/not Proud

Xrayman

Hi all,

many of you probably don't know that I was in the military for 9 years during the '80s and early 90's.

recently I spoke to a guy that joined up with me and we were roomates and did boot camp together, he asked me whether I had applied for my defence service medal-which is for three years service in the australian military (action or no action), which I had not-so I did considering I am entitiled to it.

well the other day i received it in the mail via registered post (I was unable to attend the ceremony). I am entitiled to wear it for ANZAC day 25th April here in Aus.

The trouble is two fold, firstly i am now buddhist and I fear that I should deny my military heritage, but at the same time I worked really hard to gain that commedation, also it looks a bit wanky wearing a medal while other soldiers etc have their "real" ones for active service etc.

What are your thoughts-I'd be interested to know....

cheers,
:rockon:

Simonthepilgrim

What a useful question, Roentgen-guy! Particularly at the moment when some of us are viscerally opposed to the militray adventurism in the Middle East and, at the same time, aware of and in touch with the courage of the people fighting, however deluded their understanding. This is a dilemma with which I have struggled for decades. My natural home is among the pacifists but I cannot take their vitriol towards military honour and valour - I know the words are anathema to them.

Having met some of the men and women who have fought in war, family, friends and clients, I have rarely found sadists or psychopaths - at least no more than among civilians. Very senior officers have taught me more about peace and the avoidance of conflict than any number of pacifist meetings.

It seems to me that, as people practising a Buddhist way, we are taught to discern the skillful response within a clearly-understood context. The world as it is is the arena within which we play out the Noble Eightfoild Path. In some cases, we shall look back at earlier actions and understand, as we did not at the time, how they encouraged and empowered dukkha rather than nirvana. If we have, for example, gained advantage (a job, a degree, a medal, etc.) from actions from which we now wish to distance ourselves, it may be good to give up the advantage. Did I lie about my actions in order to gain this medal? Would I wear an Iron Cross for good work at Auschwitz? Were my actions, by which I acquired this advantage, the best and most humane within the context? Would I wear a VC for having saved my comrades' lives?

It is the great burden of the real spiritual path that we have to measure untidy reality against apparently absolute standards. We are the only useful judges of our actions and we have an absolute duty to develop that skill in judging them. I love the question - I have no answer, other than that you, Xrayman, hold all the elements to make the judgment: your intention now is what matters. Wearing a medal sends a message. What message do you want to send, on Anzac Day?

On a personal and local note: it is the tradition, over here, to buy and wear a red 'poppy' made by the British Legion, in November, and to wear it around 11the November, Armistice Day. For some years now, there have also been white 'poppies' on sale. They were originally worn only by opponents of the Remembrance tradition but they have come to symbolise the desire for peace. Many people, myself included, wear both. At times it raises controversy and discussion. How about a medal-wearing, mala-saying person? Would they not have the opportunity to share something of their own opinions and position? Could this not be of benefit to both the medal-wearer and the interlocutors?

Just an idea. Thanks for the opportunity to reflect on the subject.

Palzang

Well, I was in the military too (Air Force). I didn't want to be there, joined to avoid being drafted and sent to Viet Nam (it was easier to avoid going there in the Air Force). I didn't care for being there when I was there, but I was there and I got an honorable discharge. Despite all its flaws, it did give me the great opportunity to spend two years in Japan where I made my first contact with Buddhism, and I got to learn Russian at the taxpayers' expense, so it definitely wasn't all bad. Of course, I wasn't out bombing people or anything. But I'm not ashamed for having done it. Is it bad to be willing to give up your life to defend your country, to sacrifice yourself for the good of the many? I don't think so, even though I am against violence of any kind. Certainly when I visit a Civil War battlefield I feel strongly moved by the sacrifice exhibited there by young boys who would have much more preferred to be at home than shooting at other young boys.

Palzang

Celebrin

get the medal, u earned it.. u dont need to advertise and u can't change the past. Don't be proud.. be you

Xrayman

Thank you all for your responses.

Firstly, the message I want to send... mmmm. Well I think my message is "I spent 9 years helping my country, I did it ethically and as a consciencious objector (long story), did not hurt anyone, got a great education (which I use to this day in teaching electronics and learned to be a teacher in the process), and above all I am one of those that (if I had to) would assist my comrades in the same boat." Very long-winded but it is how I feel.

N.B. there was another aspect to this situation, I wanted to "get something for my time" in the military-because rightly or wrongly we in Aus have a distinct lack of "decoration" on our uniforms, in comparison to the americans, I'm not sure (palzang help!) but there are awards for some minor (don't want to upset you), deeds that would maybe called "doing your job" here in Aus. -agree?
I know that generally speaking-a guy who saw no action in USA would have more "colour" on the breast pocket than the same guy here in Aus? -again do you agree? help me here.

i worked with a guy who was in the US marines and he was astounded when I told him I had no medals-at the same time though, he felt somewhat embarrassed by his collection even though he saw no action-like me.

sorry to go on but this is an issue that is almost impossible to talk to a civvie about-you may be seen as a bit of a wanker if you discuss it in civvie-street.

cheers all, and thanks for your input.

RoentgenMan (for STP)

Palzang

Yes, you're quite right, X-man. A lot of the decorations in the US military have nothing to do with heroism or serving in combat or anything like that. I got four decorations during my period of service, only one of which could be considered to be for placing myself in danger. During the time I served everybody got a National Defense Service Medal because we were at war in Vietnam (well, it wasn't officially a war, but a couple of people got killed, so I hear). I also got an Asian Expeditionary Medal for serving in the Asian theater (Japan). Then I got a good conduct medal for being a good boy for 3 years. The only "real" decoration I got was an Air Medal for flying 20 combat missions. They weren't really combat missions but were considered so because the potential for being shot down by the russkies was there, if remote. Well, maybe not all that remote. When the Soviets shot down Korean Airlines flight 007 a few years later after it had strayed into their airspace they thought they were shooting down the kind of plane I flew on. But it all looked purdy on the uniform, impressed the girls, etc. They call it "getting your ticket punched" in the military - a prerequisite for getting promoted (if that's what you're looking for). What's particularly funny is that I couldn't have cared less about rank and promotion, but still I got promoted to Staff Sergeant (four stripes) before I got out, which is something none of the "lifers" (i.e. career types) I knew managed. Quite a joke!

Palzang

Xrayman

Well to me that is al quite a deal more than what I have, however as far as I'm concerned, you were THERE! there was a slim chance that I could have been sent to Iraq (the first-desert storm one)89-91 but it was unlikely. At the same time I discussed my feelings with my superior about objecting to the "war for oil" and how I would not be participating in a war (that was nothing to do with DEFENDING australia-sorry).

i was told i would not be promoted-pretty much ever-should I continue with the "objection" that was the day where I lost total respect for the "defence" force here in aus.

as far as I'm concerned, you definitely deserved your medals-mine is the equivalent to your "good conduct medal" I suppose, what a joke-we used to refer to the old version of the medal (which you got after 10 years) as 10 years undetected crime! hahaha
STP:
just thought I'd reply to a post where you stated red poppies-I wear one too on Nov 11 Armistace Day-we call it Rememberance Day, as well as a sprig of rosemary( for remberance). Our ANZAC ay is very much the same as Nov 11.