Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

New kadampa Tradition-a practioners view

edited August 2010 in Philosophy
Hello,my name is David.
I'm a student of the NKT center here in Sacramento CA.
I'm also the admin director and I and my girlfriend are the residents.

I just wanted to clear a up a few things.

I have noticed a great deal how much people despise our tradition;it's very disturbing to me to see practioners as

well as many young monks hound our tradition and our protector.

It's not just a matter of religious diferences,i always wondered why my spritual guide Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was

always surrounded my security.Now,sadly I know why.
I never knew just how serious people can get in their ordinary view.

They say we "worship" Dorje Shugdan,first off worship is not a good word,I would use rely,and just as any mahayana

Buddhist tradition based out of Tibet,we have different protectors than other schools.
You say we are a demon worshipping,poison providing,death prayers for HH running cult.
That cannot be further from the truth.

My teachers (senior practioners 10+, 20+..year..) who have been around for quite a long time have never in the

history our tradtion heard of any death threats towards HH nor any prayers for his death.

Most of my teachers are on a personal first name basis with Geshe-la.And I can tell you right now he has only the

wish to help people,never harm anyone and wishes for this conflict to end and for all buddhists to live in harmony.

Yes,we provide only geshe-la's books,but I don't see that to be strange,considering he started our specific

tradition.We also don't ask people to shovel cash,nor tell them not to read other dharma books.
We even pay respects to HH in conversation if he's ever mentioned.

I have noticed from anti-NKT sites how extensive and aggresive they seem to be towards us.
Calling us "the taliban of buddhism"..i'm sorry but give me a break! is an example of how unfair our tradition is treated.

Everything ordinary beings perceive is false,all buddhists are taught this correct? well if so and everything lacks

existance and discrimination from it's own side,so does Dorje Shugdan,HH,Geshe-la,the NKT and so forth.

Even in an ordinary way,Geshe-la has transformed this so called "demon" into a protector,has that not happened in

the past with other protectors? namely with the BON tradition of early tibet.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't see us labeling Dorje Shugdan as a worldy protector,it seems the other way


If we are all buddhists,we cannot waste our time thinking about foolish trivalities,how can samsara end if all we do

is fight over so called "demons"!

Buddhism is also not about knowing as much about the history as much as it;s knowing the dharma in our hearts,no one

can really say how Shakyamuni Buddha taught verbatim,nor tell all of his life in perfect detail,so why are still so

obsessed with the material world?

I love everyone,i really try to and I love all of the gurus and Lamas of tibet,even today!

This is absurd,buddhists should be not involved in this kind of Dogma.
Also it's not just us that follow Dorje Shugdan,go to these tibetan lamas also practice it.
If you don;t want to practice in the NKT,dont and if you like other traditions,great! It's all dharma.


  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2007
    Hello David, and welcome to our modest but quaintly homely little Forum....!

    kettle's on.... ;)
  • edited April 2007

    I'm very glad you posted here and weighed in on the topic.

    While I have not "officially" joined the New Kadampa Tradition, it is the sangha I frequent the most. Everyone I have met there have been great, caring, and compassionate to everyone. I have actually helped set up a class locally which the resident nun, Gomlam, will be presiding over. I normally travel about an hour to the center, but there are locals in my area that make the trip too. Gomlam and others at the center are more than happy to possibly expand and offer teachings more frequently here where I am. They even drove down one day to flyer around and advertise the class, which they are offering free to the public.

    I think it just comes down to politics, and I don't believe that there is any room for politics in Buddhism. But what do I know, I'm still a newbie.

    Thanks again for dropping by and posting, I hope you will stick around, it'd be nice to get your views on things here.
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2007
    Dear Sentient Being,

    While certainly don't want to get off on the wrong foot with you, I do feel the need to be honest with you about my opinion. And I don't mean to be confrontational towards you either, but there are very serious questions & allegations in regards to the New Kadampa Tradition from matters of lineage, to ordination, to sectarianism, to murder. While I have interacted with several NKT practitioners & do not doubt their sincerity or compassion, I have a hard time just letting these issues go or writing off statements by the likes of individuals such as Robert Thurman & HHDL, as well as the opinions of many buddhist acquaintences of mine who are well versed in these matters. However, as I cannot directly verify any of these things I will try to give as much of a degree of a 'benefit of the doubt' as I can.

    And while the site you linked is certainly very harsh towards the NKT, it is not without reason. I guess there is the possibility of them being wrong, but they still have reason. Btw, here is the article where the 'taliban' reference is to be found, for context's sake:

    I would suggest that the statement is not necessarily as invective as it comes across to be as it was written well before 9-11. However, I can certainly understand your distaste for such a comparison & i'm not 100% sure of how accurate it is.

    Anyway, I bare you no ill will & I hope you enjoy your stay here & newbuddhist. I honestly hope that the accusations against your organization are not true & that this controversy is cleared up. However, my hope is combined with a large amount of doubt & skepticism. All that aside though, I don't think there is anything to stop us from having good dharma discussions!

    with metta
  • edited April 2007
    Actually yes, i'm aware of this article.

    And as far as I can say from it,it seems very biased.
    It continually makes accusations and it's use of words when describing us seems a bit much.

    Just as every being in samsara,there are some more fortunate than others.
    Those 5 people have taken the teachings wrong and then committed a crime out of their own ignorance,you cant blame a whole tradition for actions of a few people on the other side of the world.

    I also just wanted to say I understand why people are afraid of the NKT.
    With such writing as this,who would not be?
    In truth,none of these accusations about how we ask for money from Dorje Shugdan or worldly attainments is true.
    It clearly states when we practice Shugdan that he helps us attain the favorable conditions for spiritual practice,nothing more.
    Ive been told this personally by many to never think to ask for worldly wealth,because if it doest benefit you spiritually,nothing will be given just by requesting him.
    All protectors are for spiritual protection from obstructions,we even request all the other protectors in our 'Kangso" practice.

    About the accumulation of merit,what we mean by this (and btw there is no such page as a price list for stuff to buy) is when you help Buddhadharma to flourish that naturally gains merit,that's all we mean.
  • edited April 2007
    and no offense to Mr. Thurman but why would he use such offensive words such as "crazies" to describe us.
    For someone so distinguished in the Buddhist community,that just doesnt seem like something he would say.
    Every response from ant-shugdan people for the most part is very harsh,and then responses from pro-shugdan people seems a lot less formidable.
    There needs to be equal ground,because this is just hurting the buddhist community.
    Also,there is no animosity over Nyingma practioners.
  • edited April 2007
    and no offense to Mr. Thurman but why would he use such offensive words such as "crazies" to describe us.

    It`s called polemics. Even Buddhists are not free of it :)

    The main allegation against NKT seems to be that it is not mainstream, that it seperates people from mainstream society, hence it is classified as a "sect" or "cult". Well, this can also be seen as a compliment, the Buddha was charged with the same, he himself seperated himself from mainstream and became a wandering ascetic and made many people leave their homes or even their families!

    I am not into much detail in that dispute but I can say, at least from my side, you are warmly welcome to share your thoughts and experiences.

  • edited August 2010
    I find this squabble very unfortunate and an obstacle to those who are contemplating practicing the path. I practice at the Seattle Kadampa Center, have read many of Kelsang Gyatso's books and find them very useful to my personal spiritual practice. This doesn't keep me from reading and studying works from other authors, including Robert Thurman and HH Dalai Lama. I find the more qualified, different teachers I can listen to or read from the better my understanding - everyone explains things a bit differently. I enjoy the Kadampa teachings because they are very adaptable to our western culture and lifestyle. I do not believe anyone in the organization is contemplating murder or plotting taliban-like control over their members. I hope that disputes between various school leaders get resolved, but this will not keep me from requesting Dharma as it is truly helping myself and others. I don't feel I have been sucked into a "sect" but have made good friends who keep me motivated in my practice. I will continue to read materials written by other Buddhist scholars (including Robert Thurman and HH DL) and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. In my mind, there is no controversy and I am not doing anything wrong.
  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited August 2010
    A similar thread on this topic was recently closed.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited August 2010
    And here we go again.
This discussion has been closed.