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I'm a little bit uneasy here about Obama. ???
Nirvana
aka BUBBA ` ` South Carolina, USA Veteran
Barack Obama seems like a nice enough and articulate enough man to run for president. However, I find his candidacy unacceptable in regards to his Muslim past. Only if he were to go back and become a Muslim, would his candidacy not be a provocative act in Muslim eyes. After all, probably the worst sin one can commit, in Muslim teaching, is apostasy against Islam. One converts TO Islam, never FROM it.
We've already had Muslim extremists fly jetliners into our towers. Were we to elect or come close to electing someone who repudiated Islam, we'd be in a world of troubles.
As for myself, I definitely would vote for him if he took up Islam again. That does seem to be his true dharma.
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm
We've already had Muslim extremists fly jetliners into our towers. Were we to elect or come close to electing someone who repudiated Islam, we'd be in a world of troubles.
As for myself, I definitely would vote for him if he took up Islam again. That does seem to be his true dharma.
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm
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Comments
BTW, I have been told that the Arabic word used for becoming a Muslim is "REvert" and not "convert" because Islam considers itself the one, basic, true belief system.
'nuff said.
That ship has sailed, my friend.
The world is a jumbo of all sorts of things that can unite together to blow the whole dam* thing up. We are custodians of this fragile sphere and it is our job to seek justice, help for the enomy and the ecology, and harmony among the peoples and between the nations.
We can ill afford a politician out of self pride in his own worth make matters even worse, especially another one directly after that fiasco which is George-the-Decider Bush.
St. Paul, a very wise man, counselled that the people of good will should abstain from every form, or appearance, of evil (I Thess 5:22). That is why when search committees look for bishops and other ministers, they want to know anything which may cause any scandal. The same thing is also true in politics and in positions of trust in schools and the like.
Barack Obama is a bad choice at a critical time. He should not be running.
That ship with other people confronting other cultures in a devil-may-care way sailed very long ago and may very well have been launched anew with greater force, but people of good will everywhere will be glad to see the prevailing winds blow that ship back from whence it came.
I second that.
So you would rather he lie and pretend. Well as far as politicians go, it would not be difficult.
The dharma of his parents you mean. If he was born and raised Muslim, I highly doubt his former participation in the religion was an act of volition, but instead unquestioning obedience. I am uneasy assigning a child's religious, philosophical, or political labels based on their parents preference. Ever heard of a Marxist infant?
George Bush seems to have done a fine job at building bridges between cultures, no?
Muslim extremists are offended that our women even show their faces and ankles in public. It does not take much to set them off.
If you were referring to this country being particularly sinful, I am at a loss. That's because I believe that people are doing the best they can most of the time and I also believe that they certainly deserve better than they get.
Because by accident of nature, he was born into a Muslim family. And by act of will, he left that heritage. Suddenly, he should abandon all further political and social aspirations because of that fact.
That is like saying that because I have rejeced Christianity, I should stay out of all postitions of leadership as my apostasy might offend potential employees. It's just silly fear mongering.
I think you misunderstand. Magwang was suggesting as I have that America is already viewed as bastion of sinfulness deserving punishment. 3000 people paid for that notion with their lives 5 and 1/2 years ago. It's really nothing new.
Simon, I haven't posted in this thread yet.
The world needs more Buddhas, not more Buddhists.
As to the subject I brought up in this thread, it was just a few ruminations on my part, that I have been wrestling with for months now. There are worse things to do with ones thoughts than to express them in a calm and tranquil way.
It's too bad that there's so little regard shown for the sensibilities of our Muslim brothers and sisters. Justice is the human enterprise par excellence, but for it to be possible to pursue it we need to lighten up on our attitudes, and to be able to listen to others without wanting to attack them for their words. They are just words. Also, I don't like having every sentence I make analyzed to the nth degree. I am not attached to what comes out of my mouth. Once it comes out of my mouth, I have LET IT GO....
BTW, I really resent being called a fear-mongerer just for sharing something I had in my heart.
I'm sorry. It's a force of habit. It helps clarify what I am responding to.
To withhold all political ambitions simply because of your heritage is entirely based in fear. Obama should not bow to the will of extremists across the globe. That would be fear mongering.
Palzang
Exactly. But the sentiment here seems to be that the country is greater danger if Obama runs. I say that we are well past that.
Palzang
Golly, one just shares a few thoughts on a bulletin board, and then it turns out that because he hasn't written a complete dissertation on all the ins and outs of the issue at hand, he must be not only politically incorrect but morally suspect and a racist and a Martian...
The matter of Muslim sensibilities and areas of potential misunderstanding is very complex and nuanced. On such issues, neither you nor I have any answers —just opinions, observations, attitudes, and such-like.
"The country is [in] greater danger if Obama runs." Just to be alive is to be in danger of losing something or everything. No Sir, I worry more about integrity than danger.
As I said earlier I was just sharing some thoughts I had carried in my heart for some time. Mainly I just wished to give my thoughts some air.
By all means, let Obama run. After this post, I'm weary of all this righteous indignation. But I don't feel like the bad guy here, understand?
PEOPLE (MOST PEOPLE) just happen NOT to think systematically and clearly. We mainly just muddle through things, distracted by a thousand other things. Most of us human beings, I reckon, have about as much good will towards strangers as we have for most other smiling people. But there will always be troublemakers among us, and we should be "as wise as serpents and innocent as doves."
WHAT IS IT TO YOU if I hold people in public life to higher standards? And that, as part of those standards I include their biographies?
I personally and deeply believe Obama should stay in the Senate and do more good there than he could possibly do as a presidential contender.
William Cohen, former U.S. Senator from the State of Maine, once said that individual U.S. Senators can wield more power than the president on the really crucial matters. You may recall that he was Bill Clinton's Secretary of Defense.
I think that's probably right. Look at Clinton. He really couldn't get any of his programs through Congress —not the ones he really cared about...
I wish someone would close this tiresome thread.
HINT! HINT! HINT!
Why? I mean feel free to leave the discussion if you wish. I feel that it is an important discusison to have here and the exchange as of yet as been friendly to say the least unlike too many of the other threads where I have caused far more of a ruckus in.
We, as Buddhists, should view every single other human being exactly as we view ourselves. Worthy of the same dignity and respect, no more than we are, no less than we are, not even the same as we are.... We are all one Consciousness. therefore, in order to move the consciousness of the World, we should focus on the Compassionate, the Loving and the Positive. Everything else is just pandering to emotion. Which is futile.
If you wish to involve yourselves in the mucky maelstrom of politics, by all means do so. If you would wish to effect a difference or a change, think on what you wish to achieve, and why. Use the Eightfold path to do this.
if you are unable to utilise the wisdom of your Buddhist calling, and feel it has no place of relevance in your discussion or opinion in politics, then perhaps you might like to consider whether Buddhism is a part-time, whole-time or all-consuming objective for you.
My calling underpins my every thought, word and deed. Buddhism comes first. Everything else then follows naturally.
Carry on.
Please check out your sources. As far as I know, he was never a Muslim to begin with and the article was put out there to be anti-Obama propaganda. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp. So far, I think he is a wonderful candidate, but unfortunately there are those in politics that will stretch the truth and make up things about even the best people. Personally, even if it were true, I don't think that would outweigh other pros for him becoming president - such as his experience with Muslim culture and cool head. I don't think the radical Muslims would want a woman or evangelical Christian to win any more than him.
For the record, my sources on snope.com say that his mom wasn' t Muslim, his dad had been Muslim but was atheist and/or agnostic before they married and wasn' t a big part of Obama's life before he died. So really, it' s a non-issue. I agree with you totally, though. I am a former Catholic, and while I will always be Catholic in my mom's eyes I do not consider myself Catholic, at all, and would not let that get in the way of my doing whatever job I wanted to do just because someone might be upset.
IMO, having someone with an actual understanding of the culture may allow for policy which could remove a lot of the barbs in the side of those living in the Middle East. And those barbs have much more of an influence in igniting jihadist anger & filling their ranks than having a former Muslim as president (which apparently isn't even the case). We must understand that while you may have a point if your understanding were factual, Nirvana, & jihadists would possibly use this as anti-US rhetoric, that they are not the one's controlling diplomatic relations directly and it is doubtful that this would have any further actual affect on such things than if any of the other candidates are elected. I am also doubtful as to whether this would increase the threat of terrorist action as the motivating forces behind jihadists' actions go well beyond whether our president is a former muslim, a non-muslim or a muslim convert. And my feeling is that such actions would continue on in full force regardless of such facts.
metta
_/\_
And why I am staying out of this conversation.
I can understand avoiding political argument, particularly the polarised, party-political shenanigans of the power-hungry. I am not sure, however, if anyone can "stay out of politics" in that we are all beneficiaries/victims of particular policies.
In my local area, we have, for example, a peace campaigner who is regularly sent to prison for withholding that percentage of his taxes that goes on weapons, army, etc. His example has made me realise that, even by paying taxes, I am in some measure supporting warmongering. There is no escape from politics, this side of nirvana.
Palzang
I am from North Carolina, but left before Edwards hit the political scene there. My brother says when he grins he looks like a "mule eating bees" but that is neither here nor there. A North Carolina liberal is generally a safe bet. I like his health care plan too.
As for Hilary, it is what she is NOT saying right now that bothers me; When it comes to the war, all she can say is "George made me do it!"
Palzang