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a bunch of nonsense
becomethesignal
Explorer
That title is just a joke, but maybe it is just a bunch of nonesense.
I have really been thinking about sexuality and abortions recently. Mostly because one of my closest friends told me recently that she is pregnant. I was shocked to say the least.
It seems, especially in commercialized America, that almost no one shares my viewpoint of sex. That does not mean, however, that my viewpoint is superior, just very different.
I view sex as something that should be meaningful, not something that should be shared with just anyone. Why are people so willing to share the very most (physically) intimate part of themselves with anyone? just for an orgasm? I have heard, but cannot back up, the theory that when two people have sex that part of the one person is somewhat "imprinted" on the other and vice versa. That seems to makes sense to me.
I guess what really got me thinking about this is how my friend has become pregnant and with someone who she "does not want a long-term relationship with." Is it not optimal to be in-love first? before sex? Maybe I am wound too tight, that is very possible but I just don't understand why many (perhaps most) people are so flippant and loose about their sexuality.
Also, there are obvious dangers with having sex with just whomever: diseases, becoming pregnant without planning it or being in a solid relationship, etc.
Why do so many people seem to think that abortion is a completely acceptable way to deal with the situation of becoming "accidentally" pregnant? I don't want to make any claims as to when the embryo becomes "techinally" a human but regardless a living being is growing inside the womb and so is it just fine to cut off its life? What's more confusing to me is how many vegans and vegetarians, where I live, support abortion. They don't support killing animals but they do support killing humans or ... human embryos? Seems contradicting to me. Anyways those are my thoughts and I feel very much alone in them, which, in turn, makes it difficult to hold to those standards that I have set for myself.
I have really been thinking about sexuality and abortions recently. Mostly because one of my closest friends told me recently that she is pregnant. I was shocked to say the least.
It seems, especially in commercialized America, that almost no one shares my viewpoint of sex. That does not mean, however, that my viewpoint is superior, just very different.
I view sex as something that should be meaningful, not something that should be shared with just anyone. Why are people so willing to share the very most (physically) intimate part of themselves with anyone? just for an orgasm? I have heard, but cannot back up, the theory that when two people have sex that part of the one person is somewhat "imprinted" on the other and vice versa. That seems to makes sense to me.
I guess what really got me thinking about this is how my friend has become pregnant and with someone who she "does not want a long-term relationship with." Is it not optimal to be in-love first? before sex? Maybe I am wound too tight, that is very possible but I just don't understand why many (perhaps most) people are so flippant and loose about their sexuality.
Also, there are obvious dangers with having sex with just whomever: diseases, becoming pregnant without planning it or being in a solid relationship, etc.
Why do so many people seem to think that abortion is a completely acceptable way to deal with the situation of becoming "accidentally" pregnant? I don't want to make any claims as to when the embryo becomes "techinally" a human but regardless a living being is growing inside the womb and so is it just fine to cut off its life? What's more confusing to me is how many vegans and vegetarians, where I live, support abortion. They don't support killing animals but they do support killing humans or ... human embryos? Seems contradicting to me. Anyways those are my thoughts and I feel very much alone in them, which, in turn, makes it difficult to hold to those standards that I have set for myself.
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Well the dangers you have mentioned are not somehow non-existent when someone gets married. They might be less likely and easier to handle, but they are possible none the less. The 'when is it human debate?' is tricky. But the problem is that people make the unwarranted assumption that the tiny strand of cells immediately deserves govermental protection.
Here's what I mean. Many if not most pregnancies are spontaneously aborted. Naturally I mean where the mother doesn't even know about. There are only a few days of the month when women can conceive and even if they do, like I said, it will often abort.
Continuing on, many people say that consciousness or a soul enters the cells at conception. So disregarding my previous arguement, consider that the zygote will sometimes split into two. We call these twins. So now you have one soul becoming two? But even better, the two cells may combine again and become one. So now we lost one soul and only have one left? This arithmetic of souls just doesn't make sense.
My point is that we should be less concerned with whether the strand of cells are 'human.' Instead, the question should be whether it suffers. Now I am opposed to abortions that inflict terrible pain on the fetus.
I don't like the idea of abortion. It's an ugly reality in our culture. Yet I still feel that option should be available to people. We can't trust the state with money, how can we do so with our bodies?
Please do not feel alone, bts.
Your point of view is not far-fetched or incomprehensible – but don’t let that diminish its nobility! It is something to be admired and cherished.
I find it a strange coincidence that you should post on this topic, for I have recently been having similar thoughts about the clash of my principles with the perspective that seems to be prevalent in this society. I too have been wondering not only if I am in a minority on this issue but if it is a dwindling minority, soon to be frowned upon or deemed unreasonable.
Though I hold as ideal the precept concerning sexual conduct suggested by the Buddha for monks and nuns, I see as perhaps more realistic for our society the Fourteenth Mindfulness Training of the Order of Interbeing, directed at laypeople. It begins, “Aware that sexual relations motivated by craving cannot dissipate the feeling of loneliness but will create more suffering, frustration, and isolation, we are determined not to engage in sexual relations without mutual understanding, love, and a long-term commitment.” This seems to me such an obvious guideline to adhere to, a clear example for anyone to follow in theory if not in practice, but I have been very much slapped in the face with what I encounter around me. True, I am a student in college, and I did not enter into my experience ignorant or innocent of what I would discover – I expected to find what I did. But perhaps I did not expect to see it in those so close to me. I have very good friends whose actions baffle me, whose casual attitude towards sex always catches me off guard. It makes me feel as if I’m in over my head, as if I am so very out of place. And yet, somehow it has not led me to question my scruples. If anything, I think it has strengthened them, for I see how my friends suffer. I see how I might suffer.
I'm going to go out on a limb here...
Why do people have sex? For many different reasons. Sex is something far more primal than what you're making it out to be. We are creatures that breed. It's what we do. So - there is the whole physical aspect. A biological ... requirement? need? that has been built into us for millions of years. We are truly no different from any other animal - except that we do have the ability to reason and think.
Some people have sex to feel needed or loved. Some love the hedonistic feel of orgasm. Some love (or are addicted to) the feeling of the initial engagement with a new person.
There are lots of reasons why people do what they do.
I wouldn't say that you are "wound too tight" - but I think you need to realize that there is a lot of shit going on inside every person's head in this world that makes them who and what they are. Their thoughts, their life experiences - it all makes them the sum of who they are.
And ... they're just different than you.
And as Palzang keeps pointing out - we're all just a bunch of ignorant, sentient beings.
-bf
I acknowledge, there is something of the primal in all of us. But humankind is greatly distinguished from the rest of the animal kingdom in many ways. Therefore, there is no reason to treat sex as if we're the Bloodhound Gang.
Welcome, LotusBud, how good to meet you. And you pitch in on such an important subject. So much discussion lately about sexuality, sexual ethics and the trouble we have with them.
I think that you make an important point when you speak about our Interbeing. Nothing, I believe, is so important in our Buddhist approach to sexual activity as living the teaching on this. At the same time, we have to learn the hard lesson that others may not understand or appreciate our 'deviant' attitudes.
This is where I find the warnings of Jesus quite useful: "Follow the path of truth, justice and compassion, and the others'll give you sh*t!"
What if other people don't have a problem with promiscuety? Or multiple partners? What if someone else likes to treat sex like a member of the Bloodhoud Gang? What if someone likes it dirty? Or with the opposite sex? Or with the same sex? Or by themselves? Or without any sense of semblance of ANYTHING that resembles "spirituality".
That is their option as long as no one is being hurt, they have a willing consenting partner, or it's not illegal.
I'm not saying I'm a proponent of all of these things - I'm just saying that my mindset cannot govern everyone else.
I honestly don't mean this to sound like I'm a smart ass - but I would have thought your current employer and job - and the issues that other people have with what you do would have made something like this a little more understandable.
Nobody can make you come to terms with their thoughts and feelings about you being an American Soldier.
Nor should they - it's something you have to come to terms with.
Nor should they try to change you.
The Buddha never "forced" enlightenment - enlightenment is something that "comes" to us.
Peace,
-bf
And just for general clarification, though I'm sure you've all figured it out, I believe buddhafoot's preceding post is addressed to bushinoki and not the good pilgrim.
I agree. I don't have a problem with promiscuity, sexual quirks, homosexuals, polygamists, or anything of the sort. As long as the act is consentual, it fails to be an issue of morality. Just personal taste.
Some people feel the need to have meaningful sexual relationships. While others don't. Nether one is really wrong.
See, that's the kind of stuff I miss, bf!
Palzang
As Buddhists we work hard to make our minds more flexible, to hold our ideas and opinions less tightly. We strive to view things from as many different perspectives as possible. When we loosen our grasping and clinging to our beliefs we lessen our own suffering and our perception that we live in a lonely minority because of our views becomes unimportant.
What other people think and do in regards to their sexual practices is none of my business. My energy is limited and my plate is full dealing with myself and my own mind. When we stop agonizing over what other people do and stop wishing they'd all do what we want them to, our own suffering lessens. I follow my own moral code based on the teachings of the Buddha and as helpful and important as I believe Buddhism to be, it's not my place to impose that moral code on the rest of humanity. What the rest of the world believes and does is none of my concern.
I can relate to Brigids post (she is my sister after all) in that what your sexuality, sexual preference/fetish is none of my business (unless you are having sex with ME). Conversely it is none of YOUR business what I choose to do with my body. or what a woman does with hers-how she wishes to be sexually or otherwise.
the middle road is the message here I think!
pregnancy or abortion are two states that require equal amounts of careful and loving consideration.
P.S. When men start getting pregnant and giving birth, I will consider a man's opinion over a womans on this matter-I doubt whether this is going to happen in the near future though.
that's my 2c worth.
cheers,
love you all,
Xray
When I became a Jesuit novice, back in the mists of my early 20s, I had no sexual role models other than the permissive or the repressive. The model of purity that we were offered in the noviciate were two young Jesuits: Saint Stanislaus Kostka and Saint Aloyisius (Louis) of Gonzaga. The latter is represented in statues and those awful missal cards clasping a lily and looking up to heaven. The look on his face always made me think of constipation. My sexual feelings and this plaster saint didn't meet anywhere. And then I read some of Aloysius own diaries. What a revelation! He had a sex drive that was a real Humvee as compared with my 2 C.V.
This young man struggled! He had decided on purity and he was just too bloody stubborn to give up. That seems like real courage to me and someone I can identify with.
Interbeing, respect and strength of purpose. I think that these offered a challenge as valuable to me as aiming at a Blue (membership of a university sporting team,). After many years, I have reached the conclusion that we need to live this in our own lives and that is quite hard enough.
As bf says, others will choose other paths, other models. I am not so camped on my own opinions that I can assert them as better than theirs, particularly in their own circumstances.
What I am sure of is that we need good sex education in all our schools from as early as possible so that people can make informed decisions about their own behaviour.
Brigid, I am humbled. Thank you for your post.
However, I must disagree – only in a sense – that the actions, thoughts, etc. of others are none of my business. I’m not about to stalk someone, eavesdrop on their conversations, or otherwise poke my nose where it doesn’t belong, but I do believe that due to the reality of interbeing, anyone and everyone’s business is our own, and vice versa. And yet, it does indeed come down to minding my own business first and foremost – exactly because the affairs of others are my own, the most direct way to transform them is to transform myself. The path lies through the middle ground, as you say. At the same time that we recognize that others are suffering, at the same time that we acknowledge our resolve to help them, we must also be able to remove ourselves from their suffering, in a worldly sense, and let them go. We must recognize our own suffering and see it as an obstacle to relieving theirs.
I am back from college for the summer, back at home where family life is difficult, and the reminder is much needed and much appreciated, as I have been forgetful of some things…Again, my thanks, and forgive me for the pride in my first comment.
Bushi - I agree with what you are saying. Having the mindset of, "What kind of birth control do I use? Borty's Abortion Brand Abortions!" is probably NOT the middle way? Nor is not taking the time to use protection and discuss protection with your partner. I always thought it funny that people can, physically, so easily share the most important part of themselves with another person - yet aren't will to talk about protection beforehand because, "it's embarassing!".
I honestly have no problem with what you do as a person, I mean, c'mon... I don't even know you! But!, I think the question being raised initially was promiscuity in general. Whether it's once every six months or once a week. The question being how can people give such an intimate part of themselves to a complete (or almost complete) stranger.
I think the point I was trying to make was - if you question that, I don't think you will ever come to a satisfactory answer within yourself when viewing what other people do. It's funny - we're so much the same as a species - yet so different individually.
Like I read somewhere... "Yes, you are unique! Just like everybody else. "
-bf
Now, does that mean that one should never perform an abortion? No, that's not what I'm saying, just to be clear, as some people think every time I talk about karma I'm talking about "thou-shalt-nots" and "thou-shalts" (get over the Christian guilt trip already!). That's not the point. The point is to be conscious of all the effects of whatever you do, as much as you can. There may be times when performing an abortion, even though it means terminating a human life, is the most compassionate thing to do. That's where our training and mind state become so important so that we can make an informed decision, knowing the possible ramifications of our actions, and basing our decision on that, rather than some useless, delusional, all-encompassing, one-size-fits-all rule. :rolleyesc (rant-rant)
Palzang
And regarding the point about sexual repression, whoever said that was right. Look at Japan, one of the least repressed nations in some ways, and yet has one of the lowest STI/teen pregnancy rates in the world.
I was thinking about these things last night and wrote:
Unless a specific person is in a sexual relationship with me-that we mutually deem to be healthy-then I need not burden myself with anyone's sex-life or sexual preferences. I do think that when one has a higher self-awareness/conscientiousness then one will recognize what kind of sex is healthy. Sharing the most intimate part of myself with someone who is not committed to me (and vice versa) is simply something I will not do because it would be very damaging to me. I shouldn't expect others to view sex as I do, perhaps if they become more enlightened we may agree more, perhaps not. The fact of the matter is that knowing my own personal views on sex and relationships it would be very unwise and unhealthy to "be with" someone who doesn't hold those same views - regardless of which view may or may not be better. It isn't good for me. The only person that needs to share my views on sex would be my sexual partner.
A couple came to see me. There problem was that, whilst they wanted commitment to each other, there was a difference in their sex drives that upset them, The first wanted sex more often than the second: daily or at least every other day for the former, once a week for the latter. We used all sorts of approaches and, after a few sessions, they went away, apparently happy with a negotiated compromise which appeared to satisfy them. As I wrote up my notes, I was struck by the fact that they both, together with my supervisor, considered that wanting less sex was the problem.
About six months later, the second person came back to see me, with a new partner. This time all was reversed. The new partner wanted sex no more often than once a month.
Of the three clients, I came to realise, all were functionally OK, only circumstances changed.