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Oh yeah, Surya Das - New Age Buddhism at its best!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited October 2007
I don't know by your post, Pally dearest, whether you bemusedly approve of Mr Das, or whether you're contemptuously dismissive. Maybe a bit of both.
I see entirely where you're coming from, and I do know there have been minor rumblings with regard to reputations...
But give the guy his due, he did reach the masses.
Me included.
But he - like everyone and anything else, is a mere stepping-stone, part of the raft, I guess.... and like everyone/thing else, is only useful as a signpost, rather than as a destination. he did me a power of good at a time when he was exactly the lesson and approach I needed. And on..... bring the breadsticks....
i don't understand what you mean by "buddhism-lite."
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited October 2007
I think, if I may be so presumptuous to illustrate what Palzang means, "Buddhism-lite" is the kind of Buddhism being promulgated in such a way as to encourage interested 'listeners' to think that there is an easy way to practise, and that it's a very simple thing to read the four noble truths, the eightfold path, the five precepts, take refuge and voila! You're Buddhist!
Of course it's not, but many books advocating Buddhism as a practise, seem to present it in a very "sugar-coated" way, and that if you trip up, big deal, you're only letting yourself down, just pick up where you left off, it's easy.
It isn't.
It's a Way of Life to be taken seriously and to be viewed just as earnestly as any other form or way of worship.
it's a calling, and you are Answerable to that Clarion.
This presents an interesting problem and one to which Dr Berzin alludes but does not resolve. He admits that belief in rebirth was a cultural norm or 'meme' and thus did not require proof or discussion until Buddhism (and other Eastern schools of thought) encountered the Western tradition.Here, rebirth is not a given or a normative belief and thus requires testing with even more rigour than would have been the case, for example, among the Kalamas.
Instead of approaching the question from this angle, he resorts to dogmatism.
The grounds of his argument, such as it is, are slippery in the extreme, appealing as they do simply to authority rather than evincing methods of convincing. In the end, he requires that you believe - and are thus following what he calls (without any 'scriptural' support) "Real-Thing Dharma" - or else you are cast into the outer darkness of "Dharma-Lite", a pretty derisive term when you consider how many people have difficulty with the notion.
'i am troubled by rebirth or recantation i do not believe in this do you have to or can i just believe and try for enlightenment?'
Buddha said: 'I teach one thing and one thing only: suffering and its cessation'. Suffering exists regardless of whether or not literal rebirth is real. So I see no barrier to practicing the Three Marks and Four Noble Truths to increase well-being in this life, regardless of whether or not there is another.
I would recommend not trying to make yourself believe something that your reason tells you just isn't true; to do so would mean that you are able and willing to override your reason, and to be able to do that is to be, by definition, unreasonable. This is the mark of the fanatic and the dogmatist. I'm sure this is why Buddha also said: 'Believe nothing, no matter where you have heard it, not even if it came from me; but only if it agrees with your own reason and common sense'.
Welcome, Prometheus! Lovely to have you aboard. I haven't read the New Members thread yet so if you've introduced yourself there I'll say hello again.
If I may, I'd like to copy these two posts to some stickies for my desktop so I can have a little chew on them (mull them over, in case the expression's too colloquial). Any objections let me know. I'm concentrating on flexibility at the moment and they'd help.
Welcome Prometheus, I may have not done so earlier! I believe in rebirth and reincarnation, although science is mum on the subject. But likewise it were proved tomorrow not to be true, my life would not go into crisis.
I file these beliefs under the heading "Some neat stuff that just might be true" kinda like UFOs... however, it doesn't affect my core Buddhist beliefs or my practice at this time.
Comments
I see entirely where you're coming from, and I do know there have been minor rumblings with regard to reputations...
But give the guy his due, he did reach the masses.
Me included.
But he - like everyone and anything else, is a mere stepping-stone, part of the raft, I guess.... and like everyone/thing else, is only useful as a signpost, rather than as a destination. he did me a power of good at a time when he was exactly the lesson and approach I needed. And on..... bring the breadsticks....
It would, indeed, be hard to find better; I quite agree, Palzang-la.
Palzang
Of course it's not, but many books advocating Buddhism as a practise, seem to present it in a very "sugar-coated" way, and that if you trip up, big deal, you're only letting yourself down, just pick up where you left off, it's easy.
It isn't.
It's a Way of Life to be taken seriously and to be viewed just as earnestly as any other form or way of worship.
it's a calling, and you are Answerable to that Clarion.
Comparison of the Dharma-Lite and Real Thing Dharma Versions of Lam-rim
This presents an interesting problem and one to which Dr Berzin alludes but does not resolve. He admits that belief in rebirth was a cultural norm or 'meme' and thus did not require proof or discussion until Buddhism (and other Eastern schools of thought) encountered the Western tradition.Here, rebirth is not a given or a normative belief and thus requires testing with even more rigour than would have been the case, for example, among the Kalamas.
Instead of approaching the question from this angle, he resorts to dogmatism.
The grounds of his argument, such as it is, are slippery in the extreme, appealing as they do simply to authority rather than evincing methods of convincing. In the end, he requires that you believe - and are thus following what he calls (without any 'scriptural' support) "Real-Thing Dharma" - or else you are cast into the outer darkness of "Dharma-Lite", a pretty derisive term when you consider how many people have difficulty with the notion.
Buddha said: 'I teach one thing and one thing only: suffering and its cessation'. Suffering exists regardless of whether or not literal rebirth is real. So I see no barrier to practicing the Three Marks and Four Noble Truths to increase well-being in this life, regardless of whether or not there is another.
I would recommend not trying to make yourself believe something that your reason tells you just isn't true; to do so would mean that you are able and willing to override your reason, and to be able to do that is to be, by definition, unreasonable. This is the mark of the fanatic and the dogmatist. I'm sure this is why Buddha also said: 'Believe nothing, no matter where you have heard it, not even if it came from me; but only if it agrees with your own reason and common sense'.
Peace:)
I'm comfortable with both the view of non-rebirth and that of rebirth. I'll accept whichever happens when the time comes
Meanwhile its travelling the path from moment to moment in this lifetime that counts for me.
Kind wishes,
Dazzle
Welcome, Prometheus! Lovely to have you aboard. I haven't read the New Members thread yet so if you've introduced yourself there I'll say hello again.
If I may, I'd like to copy these two posts to some stickies for my desktop so I can have a little chew on them (mull them over, in case the expression's too colloquial). Any objections let me know. I'm concentrating on flexibility at the moment and they'd help.
No objections from me, chew away. And yes, I've posted on the New Members thread.
Peace
I file these beliefs under the heading "Some neat stuff that just might be true" kinda like UFOs... however, it doesn't affect my core Buddhist beliefs or my practice at this time.