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Hey, as long as other nations start picking up more of the tab, I'm all for helping impoverished nations. Main point, The US and UK are responsible for 95% of all current aid to poorer nations.
Was it a Time magazine article, or US News and World Report? It was about a year ago that I read the article, and it mentioned that while the US and UK routinely fall short of moneys pledged to areas such as the poorest African nations, we were also routinely the only nations that gave any substantial amount at all. Now, according to the article, the US was still the heavier hitter, but compared to the UK, nations like France and Germany were throwing pennies into a wishing well.
I find it interesting that there is a lot of stuff that comes out of the fundamentalist and evangelical churches about "tithing". Nowhere have I ever read that they give a tenth of their income to the poor and needy. Just think what could be done if 10% of GDP were devoted to poverty relief.
Simon, if I were the multi-billionaire owner of several corporations, I would gladly spend 10%, or more, of my money focusing on small areas where irrigation and fertilizer would make a huge impact. I would gladly move from area to area, leaving a sustainable agriculture system behind, thus making improvements in the long run. I'm just not going to bankrupt myself, an entire company, or an entire nation to do it.
Now, if you want to talk to the people who actually are multi-billionaires about this, be my guest, I'm sort of limited in what I can do right now.
The US and UK are responsible for 95% of all current aid to poorer nations.
Ahem, the U.S doesn't even pay its dues to the UN, let alone provide any aid to poorer countries. :winkc:
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited February 2008
Hi R.T., welcome to our forum....
interesting articles and posts you have submitted, and I thank you for those....
Come along to the New Members' thread , in the Lotus Lounge, and tell us a bit about yourself....
hello to you!
RT, I know the US doesn't even pay its' UN dues anymore. Don't even talk to me about the UN. That would be the biggest waste of money for the US. But the US does contribute aid to the poorer nations. A lot more than any other nation. UK is the only other nation that contributes anything substantial.
That would be the biggest waste of money for the US. But the US does contribute aid to the poorer nations
Back up your statements.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited February 2008
**Only when you back yours up R.T.
I'd be grateful if, as has been requested by Moderators elsewhere, you be mindful of your tone and courtesy when addressing others.
Whilst your posts make sobering reading, the timbre of your comments to others leaves a little finesse to be desired.
**Only when you back yours up R.T.
I'd be grateful if, as has been requested by Moderators elsewhere, you be mindful of your tone and courtesy when addressing others.
Whilst your posts make sobering reading, the timbre of your comments to others leaves a little finesse to be desired.
Be mindful of your tone and courtesy when addressing others.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
R.T, I'll give you one scenario. The Oil for Food program in Iraq last decade. Absolute debacle. The other thing that I have a problem with the UN is the fact that the majority of nations represented there are controlled by dictators. I could even dis on the five permanent members of the security council. Watch the movie Lord of War, starring Nicholas Cage.
R.T, I'll give you one scenario. The Oil for Food program in Iraq last decade. Absolute debacle. The other thing that I have a problem with the UN is the fact that the majority of nations represented there are controlled by dictators. I could even dis on the five permanent members of the security council. Watch the movie Lord of War, starring Nicholas Cage.
I can quite understand the disappointment, Bushi. What strikes me, however, is that we really have not given the UN the time or the resources to do the job for which it was founded. In many ways, it resembles the United States itself. Not entirely surprising in view of the fact that the US was so moving a force in its creation.
The US was founded on principles which have, many times in the past two centuries. been undermined, corrupted and subverted. The real strength of US institutions is that, despite these episodes, it comes back to the aspirations of liberty and equality which informed its creation. Even a murderous civil war failed to destroy the system and the union. It seems deeply ironic that it should be in the US today that we are seeing such opposition to so young an institution.
I apologize, Simon, I didn't have the patience to count the number of dictatorships in the list of member nations. 192 is a lot of nations to count through. Close to half those nations are dictatorships, many with well documented human rights violations in the modern era. That's one reason I dislike the UN. One such nation, the People's Republic of China, is a permanent member of the Security Council. Their actions towards Tibet, and their continued attitude towards Taiwan speaks volumes about the type of character present in the UN. Giving these people a near majority in the UN is tantamount to giving them enough power to hamper nations that are less offensive in the Human Rights category. There are enough nations out there with vendettas that will side with these nations just to hurt their enemies.
Another thing is that over half the world's population is monotheistic, meaning Christian, Jewish or Muslim. There may be a billion Buddhists out there, but that doesn't stand up to over 3 billion monotheists who would just as soon place restrictions on the rest of us based upon their religious beliefs, and moving closer to a one world government would move closer to giving them that kind of power.
I'll even admit to some fear of an entity that could give rise to a one world government, simply because the Apocalyptic prophecies of Christianity and Islam are looking like they will be self-fulfilling, and such a hollow fulfillment, without any of the good points, would leave us in shambles worldwide. The ensuing world war that followed the collapse of such a government would set humankind back centuries, if not cause the extinction of mankind worldwide.
The UN as it was during the Cold War Era was a good thing, because it struck a balance and kept the 1st and 2nd worlds from going to all out war, minimizing the bloodshed. But, in the modern era, it has outlived it's purpose, and is yet another establishment rife with corruption, only there to make self-important people feel that they are still important.
Where we disagree is on the idea that a supra-national forum with sanction power has outlived its purpose. That the UN is not at its best again yet is undeniable. The question, for me, is whether it can be repaired and, remaking itself, become what its founders designed it to be.
In some of my conversations with people in the US, I have realised that, for some, the very question of a supra-national forum is, itself, unacceptable. There have been times when i have found myself getting quite heated on the subject: the UN remains a very powerful symbol to those of us who grew up in the shadow of WW2.
Simon, to fix the Supra National Forum is to fix the nations themselves. The only way to achieve one is to achieve the other. If it can be done, I'd like to see it done, as the UN did serve great purpose immediately after WWII. And I understand completely why someone who grew up in a European nation in the postwar ere would considering the balancing power that kept us from nuking each other to hell a good thing. The main thing is that it needs to remain a Supra National Forum, and it's powers need to remain limited.
I point out to my US friends that a strong UN would address their complaint that your country is seen, by some, as the 'world's policeman'. If the US doesn't want the responsibility, it surprises me that the great energy and resources are not being bent to strengthen the association to which it has signed up.
Palzang, I wanted to take some time to frame this answer, as I wanted to present it in the right way.
For international law, the Taliban Government in Afghanistan was contributing to bin Laden's material wealth, therefore any acts of his can be considered sanctioned by the Taliban. Even though he wasn't the one to fly planes into buildings, it was terrorists sponsored by him, to include training, which did. That sanctioning is legally no different than an act of war.
As for invasion, what little diplomacy which was exercised was a matter of course, as the Taliban had no intention of handing over bin Laden, which would have ended the supposition of sanction. It was indeed necessary in the world arena, and we could have tried a little harder at talks, but nobody really expected us to try any more than we had to after 9/11.
As for the ongoing conflict in both Afghanistan and Iraq, one of the alternatives is much worse. After the Gulf War, sanctions were imposed upon Iraq, which led to economic hardship for most of the people. Should we have left Afghanistan after the initial invasion, and handed them a bill for reparations, the situation would have been just as dire as sanctions. The American doctrine for dealing with a defeated nation is the same as post WWII. Rebuild. Germans and Japanese did not want US troops in their nations following their defeat, but they are much stronger nations today because of the effort to rebuild. No real insurgency existed in Germany and Japan, but there were still issues of the locals picking fights with those who were sent to occupy and rebuild.
We will both agree that bad policy decisions were made in 2003. Iraq could have waited. Afghanistan should have been better stabilized before any thought of invading a nation that would have not been a true threat for another five years crossed our military leaderships minds.
As for discussing what reasons there might have been for invading Iraq in '08, I can't because of Security Reasons.
Tipping it back to topic for a second, The Dalai Lama is in London in May, and I HAVE A TICKET!!!!!!
How wonderful, Fede. You are a blessed whelk and we shall all benefit from your experience.
I am waiting, remembering sometimes, for an invitation to his seminar on inter-faith spirituality at the Dominican friary, Blackfriars, in Oxford. I am not holding my breath because there are much wiser and more learned people to invite first.
Whatever the outcome, I shall be giving thanks for his visit and I recognise that it brings up wonderful memories.
Comments
And, more private entities need to carry the torch. That in itself would make a huge difference.
Keep imagining............
Now, if you want to talk to the people who actually are multi-billionaires about this, be my guest, I'm sort of limited in what I can do right now.
Ahem, the U.S doesn't even pay its dues to the UN, let alone provide any aid to poorer countries. :winkc:
interesting articles and posts you have submitted, and I thank you for those....
Come along to the New Members' thread , in the Lotus Lounge, and tell us a bit about yourself....
hello to you!
Back up your statements.
I'd be grateful if, as has been requested by Moderators elsewhere, you be mindful of your tone and courtesy when addressing others.
Whilst your posts make sobering reading, the timbre of your comments to others leaves a little finesse to be desired.
Thank you.
Be mindful of your tone and courtesy when addressing others.
As Moderator on this forum, I assure you, I am.
I can quite understand the disappointment, Bushi. What strikes me, however, is that we really have not given the UN the time or the resources to do the job for which it was founded. In many ways, it resembles the United States itself. Not entirely surprising in view of the fact that the US was so moving a force in its creation.
The US was founded on principles which have, many times in the past two centuries. been undermined, corrupted and subverted. The real strength of US institutions is that, despite these episodes, it comes back to the aspirations of liberty and equality which informed its creation. Even a murderous civil war failed to destroy the system and the union. It seems deeply ironic that it should be in the US today that we are seeing such opposition to so young an institution.
Another thing is that over half the world's population is monotheistic, meaning Christian, Jewish or Muslim. There may be a billion Buddhists out there, but that doesn't stand up to over 3 billion monotheists who would just as soon place restrictions on the rest of us based upon their religious beliefs, and moving closer to a one world government would move closer to giving them that kind of power.
I'll even admit to some fear of an entity that could give rise to a one world government, simply because the Apocalyptic prophecies of Christianity and Islam are looking like they will be self-fulfilling, and such a hollow fulfillment, without any of the good points, would leave us in shambles worldwide. The ensuing world war that followed the collapse of such a government would set humankind back centuries, if not cause the extinction of mankind worldwide.
The UN as it was during the Cold War Era was a good thing, because it struck a balance and kept the 1st and 2nd worlds from going to all out war, minimizing the bloodshed. But, in the modern era, it has outlived it's purpose, and is yet another establishment rife with corruption, only there to make self-important people feel that they are still important.
Where we disagree is on the idea that a supra-national forum with sanction power has outlived its purpose. That the UN is not at its best again yet is undeniable. The question, for me, is whether it can be repaired and, remaking itself, become what its founders designed it to be.
In some of my conversations with people in the US, I have realised that, for some, the very question of a supra-national forum is, itself, unacceptable. There have been times when i have found myself getting quite heated on the subject: the UN remains a very powerful symbol to those of us who grew up in the shadow of WW2.
For international law, the Taliban Government in Afghanistan was contributing to bin Laden's material wealth, therefore any acts of his can be considered sanctioned by the Taliban. Even though he wasn't the one to fly planes into buildings, it was terrorists sponsored by him, to include training, which did. That sanctioning is legally no different than an act of war.
As for invasion, what little diplomacy which was exercised was a matter of course, as the Taliban had no intention of handing over bin Laden, which would have ended the supposition of sanction. It was indeed necessary in the world arena, and we could have tried a little harder at talks, but nobody really expected us to try any more than we had to after 9/11.
As for the ongoing conflict in both Afghanistan and Iraq, one of the alternatives is much worse. After the Gulf War, sanctions were imposed upon Iraq, which led to economic hardship for most of the people. Should we have left Afghanistan after the initial invasion, and handed them a bill for reparations, the situation would have been just as dire as sanctions. The American doctrine for dealing with a defeated nation is the same as post WWII. Rebuild. Germans and Japanese did not want US troops in their nations following their defeat, but they are much stronger nations today because of the effort to rebuild. No real insurgency existed in Germany and Japan, but there were still issues of the locals picking fights with those who were sent to occupy and rebuild.
We will both agree that bad policy decisions were made in 2003. Iraq could have waited. Afghanistan should have been better stabilized before any thought of invading a nation that would have not been a true threat for another five years crossed our military leaderships minds.
As for discussing what reasons there might have been for invading Iraq in '08, I can't because of Security Reasons.
How wonderful, Fede. You are a blessed whelk and we shall all benefit from your experience.
I am waiting, remembering sometimes, for an invitation to his seminar on inter-faith spirituality at the Dominican friary, Blackfriars, in Oxford. I am not holding my breath because there are much wiser and more learned people to invite first.
Whatever the outcome, I shall be giving thanks for his visit and I recognise that it brings up wonderful memories.