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I need advice fast.......
We have a puppy that is very very sick.......has been since Friday......we have given IV's and pushed fluids. He hasn't eaten since Thursday. Started having neurological problems on Sunday evening. Vet said to pull all meds and just give him water and leave him alone. See if he is better or worse in the morning. He was just a bit better yesterday but then started going down hill......He is still alive today but very ill......can sit up but acts in a daze......walks a bit but crawls with his back end........Sleeps 99% of the time.
Ok, my point to telling you all this..........Do I let him continue as he is.......I honestly do not know how much he is suffering.........To watch him is great suffering.....
anyway.........or have him put to sleep at the vets.......
As a Buddhist ..............I'm thinking I should leave him alone and let him go on his own if that is what he will do. But as a person watching what appears to be suffering....I feel that I should help him pass.......But does this hurt my karma and his???????
thoughts please........
Vet is calling at about 1:30pm central standard time to find out about the pup and see what to do............
I forgot to tell you, don't know if it matters on your thoughts but if you touch him other than the top of his head or back ....he cries out. other wise he is mostly quiet.
Ok, my point to telling you all this..........Do I let him continue as he is.......I honestly do not know how much he is suffering.........To watch him is great suffering.....
anyway.........or have him put to sleep at the vets.......
As a Buddhist ..............I'm thinking I should leave him alone and let him go on his own if that is what he will do. But as a person watching what appears to be suffering....I feel that I should help him pass.......But does this hurt my karma and his???????
thoughts please........
Vet is calling at about 1:30pm central standard time to find out about the pup and see what to do............
I forgot to tell you, don't know if it matters on your thoughts but if you touch him other than the top of his head or back ....he cries out. other wise he is mostly quiet.
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Comments
That is certainly a difficult decision to make. If one were to go strictly by the precepts, the only option would be to make the puppy as comfortable as possible and hope for the best. Sometimes, compassion will compel one to consider ending the physical pain that the animal is suffering by having them "put to sleep", but strictly speaking, killing is still killing regardless of the motivation behind it. On the other hand, many people feel that acts done out of compassion, such as ending a beloved pet's pain through euthanasia, are morally and kammically okay.
Honestly, though, I cannot tell you what to do because I do not know what the consequences of each action will be. All I can tell you is that if I were in your place, I would lean toward making him as comfortable as possible and hoping for the best because I have no way of knowing what he wants (i.e. to live as long as possible or to die as soon as possible), or what the consequences of having him put to sleep might be. I am sorry that you are confronted with such a difficult decision, and I am sure that whatever you choose to do, it will be done out of love.
Jason
I still do not know what to do. His pain has increased and he is crying ALOT .......bless his little heart. I keep thinking the end is near but still he hangs on. The vet is out on a call till 7 or 7:30 and is then calling to see what I want to do.......
For now I have made him as comfortable as I can....he doesn't want to be touched, so I'm guessing it hurts to much..........and listening to his cries is breaking my heart.
Poor little guy.......
thank you for sharing with us what must be a difficult time for you and your pup. i hope that what i can say will be of some help though i, in no way, would under any circumstances want to tell you what to do in any situation.
it therefore follows that i'll simply put forward what i would do in the same situation.
it soumds as though the condition of your friend is quite bad. after having tried all that i could i'd have to ask the vet as to what course of action was best to take. it's important to consider our actions in terms of our practise indeed. for me though it is also important to put aside my own clinging to thoughts and ideas and simply do what is right in the moment. i've yet to find another place to do it... if that means following expert advice regarding the condition of my friend then so be it - i'd pay the karmic price gladly.
gassho
dave
My thoughts would be similar to Jason's but be guided also by the Vet. he's the one who ultimately will not only be able to assess the condition professionally, but tell you what the prognosis is.
All I would say is act with warmth, Love Compassion and kindness. But you do this already. Heck. if this brings you to deciding to end the poor thing's life, I for one would never hold it aginst you, nor would I ever dream of criticising, judging or condemning. And i'm sure no-one else here would either, so it follows that neither should you.
I watched a programme on an explorer visiting Bhutan last night, and attempting to negotiate a really tricky dangerous snow-bound pass with Bhutan Buddhisats and their Yaks.
One of the Guides said that if a yak fell and died, they could replace him, but if a human fell and died, that would be the end of a Human life... And he is a devout practising Buddhist....
Be still. permit your mind to empty and be guided by you Love.
Heaven knows you have a lot to deal with already...I sincerely wish you peace of Mind and as ever, you know, we ARE here for you.....
Well it turns out it was taken out of my hands. I let the vet decide. He called I told him what was going on, which by that time he was barely with us. No sounds, or movements. The vet said that he thought the pain was over and that it wouldn't be long but if he moaned, or cried, or did anything to make me think he might be in pain again to call him. 10pm or midnight it didn't matter he would meet me at his office and we could put him down.
About 10pm he passed very quietly............His suffering is over.
For you and for him.
gassho
dave
I feel bad that this ignorant sentient being suffered the way that it did. For some reason, there was a condition involved with this puppy that was causing it to die.
It died (I'm not trying to be brutal here, Deb... I feel bad for your puppy...) that is a fact. It was going to die - there was nothing that was going to change that.
So - is it compassion to allow something to suffer until the very end? If this animal could relay it's thoughts to us and knew it was going to die - would it choose to languish in agony until it's body finally failed?
I still struggle with this. Is giving up life the same as taking life? Is allowing one to suffer truly an act of compassion?
If I'm dying and I'm in horrible agony and there is nothing that can be done for me and I'm going to die.. would someone, please throw compassion out the window and ease my suffering?
-bf
non-action is yet another source of practise concerning balance.
Thanks, BSF.
So would my ex.
-bf
Personally, I admit to not knowing whether humans and animals are of equal value but, if they are, should we not all enjoy the same rights and privileges? The international community does not seem to think so.
From everything I've read - there does seem to be a higher karmic value placed on humans than animals. Not to say that animals are insignificant, but taking a human life generates more negative karma.
One of my points was that we're treating an animal like it is a logically thinking entity that can reason and share it's reasonings with others - which it can't. It lies there, suffers and dies.
Do you think if it had a choice - given that animals still work under the "fight or flight" response - that is would choose to lie there in pain?
I don't know.
-bf
I feel everything happens for a reason. This is how it played out whether I liked it or not.
But to be honest..........After what I have seen in the last few months with my husband and then this poor puppy.........Next time.........I'll put the puppy down myself if I have to and if a human asked me to help them I think I could do it.
I would just have to deal with the karmic results of my actions..........
But yet...........do we have the right to interfere with someone elses karma? If we step in and help end the suffering then will they still suffer again later for what ever the reason because we stopped their suffering before it was to end?
Do you understand what I'm trying to ask? I seem to be having a hard time expressing my thoughts.
I think you express very well the dilemma, Deb. My own view is that this is the daily challenge of the Noble Eightfold Path written in capital letters. For most of the time, we ignore the fact that each of our actions is the result of choice: we move ahead by habit or preconception. Only when we are presented with events like that surrounding the illness and death of a beloved person or pet do we realise that we must choose - and it is hard.
In truth, this is the challenge of the ethical life in general. Examples are round us all the time. It is fashionable (and essential, we are told) to be aware of our "carbon footprint": we will inevitably have one but what can we do to minimise it? Similarly, we walk the Noble Eightfold Path to reduce our "karmic footprint". There will be times when we have to make agonising choices between actions or between action and inaction. These are the times when our practice of study, reflection and meditation results in more and more authentic choices. It is also when we realise that being born a human being can be terribly hard alongside its blessings.
The difference in value placed upon a human life vice an animal life in the precepts is based on the preciousness of human life for only as a human do we have a reasonable chance of attaining enlightenment and of hearing and understanding the teachings of the Buddha. Beings in other realms have obstacles that make it difficult or impossible to even entertain the thought of enlightenment, much less accomplish it. So the taking of a human life is considered much worse than taking the life, say, of an animal because you would be robbing someone of the potential for enlightenment. Who knows when they might get another chance? That's not to say it's OK to kill animals, just that there is a particular reason not to kill humans that doesn't really apply to animals (or other beings).
Palzang
See what I mean? Is this even possible?
Palzang
It must be part of my karma to have to watch suffering, because I feel like I've seen a lot of it lately. But compared to many ppl of this world I've probably seen very little. hmmmmmmmm
My question of: Why children are raped, tortured, murdered, have cancer etc...Why must so many of them suffer? Is what brought me to Buddhism to start with. I needed answers and the only place I found any answers was in Buddhism. To sum up the answer I found in one word was KARMA.
Do you agree with that?
Palzang
I'm so sorry to hear about your little puppy! Difficult, painful situation for both of you. I've done a lot of thinking about this particular dilemma for both humans and animals and the answers still elude me although a large part of me leans toward non-interference as much as possible in the deaths of other living beings. But I was thinking the other day while watching one of those vet shows on Animal Planet ( a TV channel) that if I was ever in a similar situation with a pet in great agony I would like the vet to at least give my pet a good strong dose of painkillers in the meantime and then let the animal pass away on its own. Since the animal doesn't need a clear mind during the death process to meditate or practice in any way I was thinking painkillers might ease the situation for both of us while still allowing the animal its chance to die when karmically due. Just some thoughts I've been having.
You have indeed been around a great deal of suffering in the past few months, Deb, and my heart and mind go out to you. Bless your heart, my friend.
a) it's about precious human life
b) the sadness that we have all felt alongside Deb and her family deserves a message of hope, however ironic the last sentence:
Thanks for the story Simon.