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Eastern Logic... Tough!
ajani_mgo
Veteran
I think sometimes Buddhism is confusing... But guess that's fine because it all works out...
Our logic systems are weird, really - if you are Western-centric. However in the East, Buddhism is not really the only religion, philosophy or faith to have such a strange logical system. Yet because Buddhism needs to get translated into English for the masses of English-speaking people to understand, sometimes things get confused in translation, especially to a culture which may not totally have much exposure to this kind of logic system... (Not that Easterners ourselves find it easy to understand our own logic system - we are either as equally confused still, or we are turning Western in our thought processes!)
For more information, check out The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why, by Richard Nisbett, it's a book I read some time before, and continues to exert some influence on my thoughts on ethnocentrism.
Okay I've been rambling on and on without even touching on the main topic - how does Eastern and Western logic differ? Note: I may over-generalise!
Western logic mostly comes in the form of "false dilemmas", something is either TRUE or NOT TRUE.
Eastern logic is a little stranger - with a potential of 4 possible results. Something can be TRUE or NOT TRUE or TRUE AND NOT TRUE or NOT TRUE AND NOT NOT TRUE. How queer, indeed!
It repeats often in Buddhist concepts and explanations - attachment and detachment are both not the goal, it's non-attachment. It's not extremism, not asceticism, it's Middle Path. Nirvana is non-existence and existence, as paranirvana may be not non-existence and not existence alike.
I caught this name somewhere, the name of an Indian Buddhist philosopher who thought of the tetralemma system of logic which is about what I have said about Eastern logic - Nagarjuna.
Being an Easterner, these logical concepts don't really come easy to me either, you don't get to learn them in school, the closest being the lame "things are never wholly black or white, they are grayed" or something. Yet I think the beauty of this form of thinking extends beyond Buddhist philosophy. The application, and internalisation of such a logical system opens up your mind to a much more possible open-mindedness than Western logic. (Sorry, this sounds a bit Occidentalist)
Of course, certainly, Western systems and thought definitely has its fair share of seemingly-Eastern logical applications within at times. In fact, when describing the abstract, Westerners unconsciously use Eastern logic all the time - not this, not that.
Therefore I propose, we should sign a petition, and enforce the learning of Eastern logic in schools!
(Right...)
Our logic systems are weird, really - if you are Western-centric. However in the East, Buddhism is not really the only religion, philosophy or faith to have such a strange logical system. Yet because Buddhism needs to get translated into English for the masses of English-speaking people to understand, sometimes things get confused in translation, especially to a culture which may not totally have much exposure to this kind of logic system... (Not that Easterners ourselves find it easy to understand our own logic system - we are either as equally confused still, or we are turning Western in our thought processes!)
For more information, check out The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why, by Richard Nisbett, it's a book I read some time before, and continues to exert some influence on my thoughts on ethnocentrism.
Okay I've been rambling on and on without even touching on the main topic - how does Eastern and Western logic differ? Note: I may over-generalise!
Western logic mostly comes in the form of "false dilemmas", something is either TRUE or NOT TRUE.
Eastern logic is a little stranger - with a potential of 4 possible results. Something can be TRUE or NOT TRUE or TRUE AND NOT TRUE or NOT TRUE AND NOT NOT TRUE. How queer, indeed!
It repeats often in Buddhist concepts and explanations - attachment and detachment are both not the goal, it's non-attachment. It's not extremism, not asceticism, it's Middle Path. Nirvana is non-existence and existence, as paranirvana may be not non-existence and not existence alike.
I caught this name somewhere, the name of an Indian Buddhist philosopher who thought of the tetralemma system of logic which is about what I have said about Eastern logic - Nagarjuna.
Being an Easterner, these logical concepts don't really come easy to me either, you don't get to learn them in school, the closest being the lame "things are never wholly black or white, they are grayed" or something. Yet I think the beauty of this form of thinking extends beyond Buddhist philosophy. The application, and internalisation of such a logical system opens up your mind to a much more possible open-mindedness than Western logic. (Sorry, this sounds a bit Occidentalist)
Of course, certainly, Western systems and thought definitely has its fair share of seemingly-Eastern logical applications within at times. In fact, when describing the abstract, Westerners unconsciously use Eastern logic all the time - not this, not that.
Therefore I propose, we should sign a petition, and enforce the learning of Eastern logic in schools!
(Right...) 0
Comments
abstract things can be expressed pretty good in affirmative ways. As for neti, neti, you find it also in the upanishads as well as in christianity. Mystics like Meister Eckhart made exhaustive use of the so called apophatic approach.
Metta
I meant that Eastern logic is weird, fofoo - heh, not that Western logic is much better - it's a matter of familiarity ain't it?
The Western logic seems to be more native to East and West alike though - maybe it could be because it's easier to understand from childhood? Nevertheless multi-value logical systems fascinate philosophers all the time, and do really have got an ENORMOUS impact on how we understand our world totally.
I think as a general statement of cultural orientation this may have some validity. Western philosophical systems can be complex. I’ve never studied them myself though I’ve conversed with those who have. We like things Black and White in the West whereas in reality life is much more about shades of grey.
It could also explain why historically *ahem* “orientals” attracted such adjectives as mysterious, inscrutable and so on - couldn’t pin them down to a straight yes or no you see :-)
I think Buddha’s teachings are less a philosophical system though and more an attempt to use a limited medium (language) to point a student at a direct truth. Not an easy job, as language and meaning tend to shift from person to person.
On some boards I’ve seen very heated debates between individuals who are more or less saying the same thing - ie. Is the glass half-empty or half-full?
1. half-full (eternalist)
2. half-empty (nihilist)
Still, it’s all thought provoking stuff.
In any case I’ll never let the banal truth get in the way of a good stereotype. I’d hate to travel half way around the world to find the people there were like my mates in the UK - just more conversation about house prices and public services. Please not! Give me some “mysterious & inscrutable” orientals any day.:D
Kris
I don't know - I think Edward Said might have had a point when he wrote about Orientalism back then. Could it be that the Eastern logic systems got Othered by the West?
I've always had the feeling that the Japanese have a different culture to their neighbours. Being stuck on an island can have some unusual consequences. Retention of the monarchy, driving on the left hand side of the road and a bizarre inward-looking culture combined with a love of foreign elements- whether it's an English girl dressed in a kimono or a Japanese guy dressed as Elvis -
Or'd you rather Korea - stereotyped as the country where the coming-of-age ceremony includes a visit to the plastic surgeon?
All of us are kinda funny to others and normal to ourselves I guess - the disastrous consequences of a different logical system, then a different logic, and then a different collective conscious and unconscious.
So... Does America imitate Asia, or does Asia imitate America?
As i understand it, Ajani, China actually owns the USA having it by the financial short and curlies.
Hi ajani,
True. Talking of stereotypes, how does the image of Singapore match up to reality?
Glitzy sky scrapers, wealthy citizens (who refuse to reproduce) and the death sentence if you accidentally drop a bit of paper...
...okay, just kidding about that last bit, but you catch my drift.
Yea, by the way, you forgot to mention that we have a rigid education system which is sucking away all the last energy of this Ajani right here, right now. We also have a variety of identities - Singapore, where East meets West... "Uniquely Singapore" - an Orientalist shadow of the past...
Have you been to Singapore ever? Ever walked into our museum? You will be shocked how we actually attempt to create our own identity - though if there is one thing I must say I feel truest about Singapore, in that it was not planned, more of a spontaneous thing, is our multiracialism, or maybe that's just the way I perceive it.
Gee - I hope we don't start sentencing gays to death.
Not yet, but if I do I’d like to fly over in one of those new Airbus A380 planes that Singapore Airlines has just acquired - first class private suite complete with double bed.
Better behave myself though:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7071620.stm
Nothing stereotyped about this story eh?:wow:
Yeah, that thing's publicized loads around here.