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Mind and Universe.
Do the tools we use to solve a problem shape or limit the solution of that problem ?
If a carpenter is given a table saw and instructed to solve a wood working problem .. like build an entertainment center .. if his only primary tool is a table saw then will not the entertainment center he builds have a solution limited by and charecterized by the table saw.
Example .. we would not expect to see sweeping curved cuts in our entertainment center .... ect..
If we ponder the universe and seek to know what it is ...will not the solution be limited by characterized by the tool we use to understand it also .. that is the mind ? At some point can we say the ultimate solution to the universe is the MIND.
So we seek answers outward but are lead back to ourselves ?
What are your thoughts ??
Cheers ...
If a carpenter is given a table saw and instructed to solve a wood working problem .. like build an entertainment center .. if his only primary tool is a table saw then will not the entertainment center he builds have a solution limited by and charecterized by the table saw.
Example .. we would not expect to see sweeping curved cuts in our entertainment center .... ect..
If we ponder the universe and seek to know what it is ...will not the solution be limited by characterized by the tool we use to understand it also .. that is the mind ? At some point can we say the ultimate solution to the universe is the MIND.
So we seek answers outward but are lead back to ourselves ?
What are your thoughts ??
Cheers ...
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Comments
Palzang
Solution....solution....but solution to what? A solution supposes a problem. What exactly is being solved?
There had to be some point in time when a man or woman looked up for the fist time and asked ..
What is that up their ?? :wow:
Before that we just saw what was up their ... no questions asked.
So that's the problem .. not some convoluted scientific sounding thesis a graduate student could only conjure up but a simple question that a child may ask .. What is that up their ? :wow:
The universe is mind ... yes I appreciate that ... but I am suggesting maybe another route to that conclusion. A modern day journey.
Cheers gents ...
Like Where...There....(they rhyme, so it helps to distinguish them.)
That's one solution.
But it's not the one you might be wanting.
I still boggle what little mind I have, in understanding that whatever it is when I look up, it's limitless. In every and any direction.
Shaddup Alex.
Sorry.
That is one of the great dilemas in life .. by the time we get the universe and mind figured out we are so run down we forget how to spell.
Cheers ...
Sorry OST...
It's the proof reader in me.
Thank you for not being off-ended!
Reality is created by your five senses, and your imagination. It took an extremely long time for any living thing on Earth to get to the point where they could even contemplate the Universe. Imagine "reality" in thirty or forty thousand years. Reality has always been the same, it is the audience that changes.
I was once told that somebody explaining the Universe to us would be like a man trying to explain to an Insect how the supermarket works.
I would think some insects insect knows the supermarket quite well.
All animals do not have the quite same senses ..... a shark can sense electrical impules .. a cat has two eyes but does not have human like vision. A spider eight eyes. They have different senses and brains to understand these senses .. they must then have different universes and hence different realities.
I can entertain the idea of a single universe and many different realities .. a "shark".. "cat" .. "human".. "sea slug" reality. I do not see a single reality.
Although .. I tend to see each reality as a universe.
Confusing ehh ??
Cheers ...
Evolution. Adaptation.
I see it more as one reality and one Universe, just different ways of interpreting it.
I would think that not a single insect understands how the Human supermarket system works. An insect does not know "its universe". We all share the same Universe. There is only ONE universe. Most insects care only about eating and re-populating. They do not sit around contemplating where it all came from or what is beyond our planet, much less our solar system.
Obviously an insect can enter a supermarket and live there, but they don't understand the human processes going on. That was my point. A human being cannot explain to a fly how the processes in a supermarket work(i.e money transactions, order of products,etc).
An ant does not understand how to earn money and then go to the supermarket to purchase food. This is a human act, not an insect's. An insect does not have the same intellectual capacity as a human being.
I am not saying you are wrong redpill .. by no means ... I am only trying to point out that you are looking at the universe from the outside .. from an absolute perspective .. rather then a relative perspective. The absolute perspective is a perspective a creator would have ( like a god ?? ) versus the relative view of a participant.
Do we participate in the universe or are we as humans ordained to define it's very nature ?? Which view is more useful in our modern world ? Did we fire the creator but take his seat ?
It is not a reality for me to fly in the air .. it is common practice for a bird. A birds reality is not my reality ?? Seems very simple to me.
If the universe we lived in was the same for all life throughout natural history then there would not be a diversity of adaptations and we would not see so many different organisms living in the world. There would not be diversity in life there would be monoculture. No ?
A fly has a smaller set of neurons then humans ... but using all those neurons defines the flie and it's universe. The more neurons the more expansive and convoluted the universe. The flies universe is not the humans universe. The fly does not have to be the human the human does not have to be the fly.
In other words you redpill are sitting in the chair of the creator when you imply one universe .. one reality. As if the universe was designed just so humans can unravel it. The absolute view is a human centric view.
Try centering the world from where redpill is sitting ... and look at how grand the universe is. It is not a debate .. just an exercise.
Do you really undertsand deep down in your bones that the earth is no longer the center of the universe ? Ponder that ...
Cheers ..
I am looking at the Universe as a participant using the information we have so far.
We participate, and at the same time try to define what it is we are participating in.
The bird breathes the same air as you, watches the same sunset, eats some of the same foods, etc. You are sharing the same reality with that bird. The same physics apply. The bird can fly and you can't. So what. You have opposable thumbs to pick up a cup and drink, the bird doesn't. That doesn't set you in a different reality.
No. The Universe has always been the same and will always be the same. We have different organisms adapting to different area of our planet because they are in different living conditions. That does not create different realities, only different ways of adapting to the same reality, depending on what conditions one is living in. A fish, a bird, and a human all share the same reality, they just have different views of it. Gravity, evolution, the drive for food, sex, and shelter effects us all the same.
I think you may be confusing the word "Universe" with something else. There is only one Universe. All creatures, all planets, all solar systems, everything shares one Universe. You use the word interchangeably with Reality...there is a large difference.
Because all creatures share the same universe and, to date, human beings are the only creature to show any sort of attempt at unraveling it's mysteries. Scientifically, humans are the smartest creatures on this planet, yes. To say that a fly is smarter in his "universe" is mere speculation and assumption.
I assure you that I do it almost every day.
Fully and completely. I am not religious. I do not believe that the Universe revolves around humans.
I will copy and paste a blog I wrote over a year ago in response to a Christian telling me that there was no meaning to life without God:
I assure you that I am well aware of how tiny we are in the Universe. We may be an insect to some other race out there. The thing is: We shouldn't be too humble to admit that we are at least more intelligent than most being on this tiny planet. Evolution blessed us with amazing brains and intellectual capacities. I will not pretend that a fly is your equal.
.. and yet a fly walks on my cieling and I walk on the floor But we both have the same reality ?????????? :eek2:
The information we have so far tells us reality bends .. physics suggest the universe can only be undertsood in a relative sense. Time on a space ship traveling through space is not the same as time sitting hear on earth. Time slows as we move through space .. a space traveler ages slowly while on earth people would age much faster. The experience of time differs between space traveler and earthling. Crazy isn't it but that's using the current information we have so far.
Light bends in space ..
There are no straight lines ..
That does not jilt your sense of reality ??
Boy .. you are locked up tight.
Whatever.
Cheers ...
Evolution does not bless anything .. you are no more blessed then the fly .. like it or not .. and in the grand scheme of things the flys may be around longer then humans. So the big brain may be of limited value. Fewer neurons may be better ????
Cheers ...
Cheers ...
Exactly. So that is part of our reality. IT doesn't change anything, only adds to our knowledge of that reality.
I appreciate you starting arrogant, personal attacks again. Is this how Buddhism works for you? One studies Buddhism and then becomes an all-knowing being who looks down on everybody else? Call me a baby and pretend I am stupid for having a different view?
Are you studying the same ideals as the rest of the members on this website? Because you seem to be the only one here that is full of himself. You really need to get over yourself. You are extremely contradictory and, in my opinion, a flat-out jackass. Congratulations on being the first Buddhist Jackass I have ever met.
I can at least admit that I don't have all the answers to life. I certainly am not going to pretend to be more knowledgeable than somebody else because I have studied one minuscule religion...that may or may not be right.
You speak of looking at things from the outside, maybe you should view your beliefs from the point of one who does not believe Buddhism holds all the answers to life. You may find some of your statements to be quite silly. If you honestly belief that human beings are not better off than a fly, then I can't look at you as being a rational person. Flies cannot even think about life, they just carry out the actions they have to so they can stay alive. You mix scientific evidence with Buddhist philosophies and pretend the philosophies are just as factual. Reality is reality. Our Universe is our Universe.
You, OST, have brought me to an important conclusion: I just can't bring myself to believe any religion is anything more than brain-washing. I cannot stand the arrogant "You have to be a real Buddhist to understand...blah blah blah." You, sir, have not escaped the "battle" you speak of in any way, shape, or form. The battle you tried to project onto me is the one that you, yourself, are fighting.
I'm not going to allow myself to turn into the hated "troll" around here. So I will take my leave. I know OST does not speak for Buddhism, but if I stick around his arrogant remarks will pop up constantly and I feel I will not learn here. No hard feelings...just not a good fit.
Peace to all.
I am talking science not buddhism or any religion. It seems you have had an allergic reaction to religion .. anything thats does not add to an integer like 2 + 2 you refuse to grasp. If it is not straight lines .. black and white you think it is religion and immediately pass it off as nonsense.
I have not insulted you .. I made an observation regarding your respones it was an observation on how you see things. That is not cause for you to explode in paragraphs of nonsense attacking me or what religion you think I represent.
Cheers ...
Just some tidbits.
The first two links are from Einstien's world .. the last from "buhdda's world ".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wteiuxyqtoM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSRIyDfo_mY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzPk0QVr_nQ&mode=related&search=
Cheers ...
Those are all really good. Thanks for sharing.
But the five senses have always existed. So in a sense, they have not evolved, but have simply been refined.
Adaptation?
Please explain how adaptation has affected your five senses.
How has your eyesight 'adapted'?
And your sense of touch?
I'm not clear on what you mean....
Maybe the five senses have always existed...but it took time for the five sense organs to evolve. And really, do you think that there is a sense without a sense organ?
Are you speaking from a purely anatomical, biological evolutionary standpoint, or are you discussing the senses with regard to a Buddhist perspective of their function and existence?
Whilst Buddhism wholeheartedly embraces the research and findings of scientists and scholars, it also takes into account the Sutras and teachings with regard to the use, and results of responses to the senses.....
What does Buddhism say about the senses? Don't worry about repeating what I may already know--I'm still very new at this and I can't claim to know much.
Palzang
Palzang
:om:
You really no how to cut away all the fat and get to the point !!
Cheers ...
Palzang
As i have looked at the exquisite working of my senses, the way in which I interpret the world-out-there and transform my perception of it reveals itself to me, and its delusions.