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Buddhism and Childlessness
odonata
New
Hi all, it's been a while since I last posted anything and could do with your thoughts on coping with infertility. It is one of the strongest "urges" known, the one to procreate and pass on your life, but when it doesn't work out, what can Buddhism teach at times when you feel most down and scared about a future without children?
There's always plenty of practical advice from "try adoption" to "just relax" in secular circles, but what about those 3am moments of panic and desperation when nothing seems possible?
There's always plenty of practical advice from "try adoption" to "just relax" in secular circles, but what about those 3am moments of panic and desperation when nothing seems possible?
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I wish I could give you a clear answer.
I do not have any children nor have I really had any desire for them.
But I have recently started to realize that the men and women who I teach Yoga, Buddhism, meditation and English to in a small provinicial prison here in Cambodia are my children in a certain way.
I guess I might say that Buddhism teaches us to be understanding and compassionate to all living creatures and in that way we grow while assisting others.
Sometimes I think, or I have seen well meaning individuals, both men and women, who want to have children but then make a mess of their own lives and the lives of the children because they are not clear in their mind about how to be or how to live and direct their children.
Maybe if we can not have or do not wish to have children we can still develop those characteristics within ourselves (love, wisdom, compassion, mindfulness) that we would give to our children
to others and find joy and a meaningful growth through that.
I am sorry that I do not have much else to say that can assist you in uderstanding this or dealing with it beter.
I think it's important for you to really take a long, hard look at what it is that is really bothering you about not being able to have children. That's kind of what Buddhism is about, yeah? Taking a really close look at our motivations and drives, really getting in there and rooting them out. Because usually when we get them out in the light of day they're about something quite different than what we originally thought.
Just a suggestion.
Palzang
Interesting username. Did you know that is the biological order name for Dragonflies and Damselflies?
I love dragonflies :bigclap:
My dear. I have been coping with a similar problem and it is not simple or easy to deal with. I think that for women, the biological need to have children can be very different than the male need to have children. First, I would recommend seeing a doctor if you are not already. Sometimes your body is out of whack, but can be brought back under control. Maybe not to fertility, but just to get your hormones back to a more normal point if that is part of the problem.
Then you are going to have to sit with what is left. Not fun! I would recommend looking at the steps or cycle of dependent origination and meditating on how or why you get this feeling. Is it a need to "parent" children as was stated above by John C. & Palzang, is it the desire to create something, etc., etc. It may not be an urge you can get rid of completely, but it more than likely is attached to other things in your life. For example, when I start to feel ______, I find myself wanting a child more, or when I am at this day in my cycle, I feel distraught because I cannot get pregnant. When you recognize those attachments, you can deal with that and at least lessen your suffering.
If you ever need someone to talk to, you can PM me. And know that eventually all things change.
Is it selfish for us to bring children into this world just to give our life meaning?
Hopefully I'm not coming off as a negative person, I love children and I love life.
Palzang
Palzang
However, if I don't ever have children of my own I think I would like to adopt or at least sponsor a child perhaps from Africa or Asia. Why bring another child into the world when there are already millions without clean water, education or even parents. There are children in Africa who live in slums and gutters. There are children in Africa who are forced to join militas as cheap cannon-fodder. Sorry if I'm getting on my soap box here but wouldn't it be better to give them a second chance?
I know what you're saying Palzang. But as Windwalker has mentioned in the post above, adoption just makes more sense to me. Giving the opportunity of a better life to child that is already seems like a better option to me. Lately, I've said to myself that out of love for my children I simply will not have them. But hey, mistakes happen.....I'm living proof.
On a serious note, though, this thread solicits a lot of questions. I've been following it awhile and the thing that strikes me most right now is the fact that many people (if not millions) are not really meant to be parents.
I think there's a certain thing much akin to martyrdom that befalls parents and the many people that attend to these children in many ways are real beneficiaries of those doing the real gruntwork, that is, the real parents.
All people everywhere are to be loved, but a certain huge portion of that love is directed to the children, perhaps due mainly to the sheer beauty and majesty of that mystery that is potentiality that lies so powerfully within them. In my case I am absolutely in love with my nieces and nephews and I hope that they know it.
My apologies to our noble Friend Palzang, to whom I owe a huge debt of gratitude for everything he says.
Palzang, you inspire me always!
Fondly,
Nirvy
An important thing to remember, Carlito:
Buddha did not say that life is suffering. He said that there is suffering in life, and that this suffering is caused by ignorance and attachment. If all life was suffering all the time, you would have to die to attain enlightenment.
Somebody tell me if I'm stating this incorrectly.
Also, I don't think a strong biological urge to have children necessarily equates to wanting children in order to give your own life meaning. I know there are people out there who think that children are just one automatic step in life and that they have not been "successful" unless they have kids. But I think we are talking about a lot more than that as well.
Nirv
Amen. Especially on the grammar. (J/k!)
Hi odonata,
I wish you luck and hope things work out for you. Someone wrote that this urge is stronger in women and I agree. My wife and I came very close to not being able to have children and we were even told that there was little chance in bothering - but we did (very long and painful story) and we have two lovely kids of our own.
I would say that there is nothing much in orthodox Buddhism per se that can give you comfort. Sometimes life is to be faced for what it is and any religion is an inadequate means to confront it.
But there is mystery and beauty, a deeper truth and hope.
Don't lose this hope and just keep trying. Holding my baby son was redemptive in a way that no religion can ever be and it has changed my outlook. Before, I would never have adopted, as I quite liked my un-kiddy, carefree lifestyle (I'm a bloke). Now I understand what it means to give love to a child I would not think the same way.
Namaste
Kris
As Iread it, you are right, Nirv. The First Noble Truth teaches us that there is suffering in life (doh!) or, as I prefer it, life is not entirely satisfactory. This produces stress and unhappiness. The roots of this suffering can be identified and can be eliminated in this life.
As for biological urges, they are precisely that: biological. They can be very pressing and bring great discomfort. Were we nothing but creatures of instinct, a 'biological urge' would be argument enough but we aren't. Straw man: what about those 'biological urges' such as pyromania or paedophilia? Do we simply accept that giving in to them is OK?
If any person thinks that having children will give their life 'meaning', they are seriously deluded. There is only one person who gives life a meaning (whatever that means) and that is the person themselves. Children (Gott sei dank) grow up and go away - does that then remove the 'meaning'? Or should we cling to children? Obviously not, as the Second Noble Truth reveals: our clinging and aversion, arising from ignorance (among other roots), result in our dissatisfaction.
Of course, there have been many religious and quasi-religious movements which have taught childlessness as a route to liberation. They have died out! The original Shakers are a case in point.
It can be argued that there is a serious problem of overpopulation, as many Green Parties have done. This is quite another argument and there is significant evidence, from India and China, that limiting births by government diktat leads to law-breaking and more suffering at the individual level, even if it can be enforced.
Let me share a story my teacher told. She had two sons and loved them very much, just as you describe. At the time, she was living on a farm in North Carolina, so she had lots of time to dote over them, cook, that sort of thing. She said one day she was holding one of her sons, and she was thinking that she would always be there to protect him from harm and make sure he didn't suffer. Then she realized that this was a lie, that she couldn't ultimately protect him (or anyone) from growing old, suffering, and dying, that in fact she would die some day, so how could she protect him then? So even right there, babe in arms, suffering reared its ugly little head. That's when she realized that the only way she could be of real benefit to the babe (as well as all sentient beings) was to seek a way out of samsara, just as Siddhartha Gautama realized so many centuries ago, so that her son could find an end to suffering himself.
So yes, enjoy your children, experience the joy of caring for them and loving them and receiving their love in return (at least until they become teenagers!), but also understand that you can use this experience as a profound teaching.
Palzang
Hi Palzang,
I agree with that. The thought has also crossed my mind that I hope I have the opportunity to give my kids from the dharma. But I think you've hit the crux of the matter - Buddhism is about "a way out of samsara", rather than addressing other wishes.
I can understand odonata, that's why I hope she has success. We all have to move towards unbinding at our own pace (and on our own terms) and this is a thing of the heart. On the one side, the sublime teachings and on the other, our natural wishes.
It's one foot on the platform, the other on the train...
...until we're ready to lift that last foot off.
Namaste
Kris
Palzang
It's a lot to do with fear isn't it; avoiding it, running away from it, covering it up.
What will our lives be like without children? Are we brave enough to look at this without histrionics and a sense of "martyrdom"? Can we be open enough to really let go of jealousy?
Big feelings, but not overwhelming ones and a real deepening of my understanding of buddha, dharma and sangha.
If you're in a similar situation, have a big hug from me and I hope you find the peace you need. xxx
I don't have children. There have been periods in my life when I have wondered "what if" and said "s'not fair" and resented parents who have children and don't seem to appreciate them nearly as much as I would have.
But ... this too passes.
Not being Mum to anyone in particular frees me to be Mum to anyone who needs one. Which is an enormous gift. And the more you concentrate on this thought, the more those vibes go out into the world and those suffering, in need of a hug, those grown ups who wouldn't dream of asking for it come to your arms for comfort. If not Mum, you become everyone's Auntie which is a wonderful role.
I'm not saying it's easy but it is a huge compensation.
Incidentally, found this interesting article- any views on this?
http://fwbo.org/articles/not_having_children.html
I'm conscious first of all of taking the thread off-topic, so if I see that happening, I'll flex my not inconsiderable Arnie terminator muscles and move stuff around....:D
I am a mother of two grown-up girls, who since my separation and subsequent divorce fom my ex-, both live in France, with him.
That's where our home was.
My daughters and I have become estranged from one another. Although there has been contact, and some of it recent, there is little or no contact with loving kindness, intimacy or closeness, at all.
This, following the most idyllic, close and affectionate of relationships anyone could ever have imagined with her own two children, is both a shock and a tremendous source of personal anguish to me.
This is just by way of saying that whilst we can look at so-called dysfunctional families, wih a myriad of problems, or the issue of a woman with many children all with different fathers, and teenage pregnancies.... it's not just the stereotypical situations that are problematic. Even the most seemingly normal, smooth and apparently wonderful situations can shatter and fragment with no warning.
I'm not saying I wish they'd never been born, not at all.
But in hindsight, I would have thought very seriously about having children. I probably wouldn't have actually had any.
I find, as I get older, my tolerance for children is getting thinner.... :rolleyes::hrm:
They are tough when they are two, impossible as teenagers and sometimes even worse when they are grown up. Maybe I got off lucky, and I can choose who I am Mum to.
[action=Knitwitch]hugs Federica[/action]
Interesting - I think there is much LESS pressure on women to be mothers these days than there was back when I was a girl (about 1856) and young women today are much more free to channel their creativity in whatever direction is most fulfilling for them.
Whether we think of the urge to reproduce as a biological imperative or a flow of creative energy, both can be used in other ways - spiritually as well as physically.
I am a typical example - I don't have kids, I have three big dogs who are my boys and I get to cuddle and play with boisterous toddlers all the time, except mine are a bit hairy and smelly. Spiritually my mother-love goes out into the world to try to do some good - om mane padme hum.
I was lucky in that, like the Rev who wrote the article, in my twenties and early thirties I was rushing around being busy. By the time I thought about motherhood and found out it wasn't going to happen, I had realised that my maternal instinct wasn't that strong.
But for someone who has dreamed all their life of being a Mum - it must be a shattering blow and my heart goes out to them -- although as Federica has pointed out, even if you are a loving, caring family and have great kids ..... it can all go horribly wrong.
PPS - notice numbnuts using new "action" facility!