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What's a "lay zen priest"?
Someone contacted me recently via email saying he's a lay zen priest. I don't know what this is but I'm really interested to know. I've contacted him several times since he sent me that email but he hasn't responded. So, I figure I'll get at least a couple of answers from this board.
Thanks so much.
Troy Santos.
Thanks so much.
Troy Santos.
0
Comments
It sounds to me (and I'm only guessing) that he may be a Zen Monk by virue of the fact that he took ordination, but then left to become a lay person again...
I'm not sure.
Be nice to know his web-name, or details though.
sounds interesting.....
Hi Troy,
Are you sure it wasn't a lazy zen priest?
-bf
-bf
I'm surprised nobody here knows. I guess they're not very common, these lay zen priests.
Or, maybe they're just too lazy to reply to this thread!
i think perhaps i may be able to answer your question but i must state that my sources are entirely from observations and therefore please don't take what i say as the difinative definition of a lay monk.
here in japan - where i think we'd all agree zen schools were historically the most prolific - there are regular references to lay monks and nuns. i believe this originated from the nature of zen teaching here in the past. nobles and other persons of high status would usually have a family connection with local temples and, as a result, recieve tuition in the dharma from priests associated with those temples. more often than not this was usually quite casual but sometimes the students would develop into stringent pratitions. they could then 'leave the family' and officially ordain as monks or nuns in monastaries. there were times, however, when, due to strict heirachical duties, this just wasn't possible. the practitioner therefore would ordain and recieve precepts but remain in the secular world. this is, as i see it, the origins of lay ordination.
on a related note, if you have any questions in reference to zen practise i would be happy to do my best to help in any way i can.
i hope this post has been useful.
dave
I've often heard people say that, "you just need a good lay zen priest."
Must be a reason they exist.
-bf
....and we're back to our old friend!
Has anyone seen my halo?
-bf
Thanks so much, even for your reticence!
Troy.
i quite, and by this i mean rather, enjoy, am stimulated by, a heavy, though by no means excessive, use of one particular punctuation mark.
;>
Fed, I like your idea of the punctuation mark. Great.
I think you have the kind of imagination that most people would not indulge.
But I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just unthinkable for me. I'm all for cremation for dead bodies, though I think self immolation to be beyond my worst dreams. I'd let them singe my hair, though. It's not that I'm a moral coward, just a physical one.
My state of mind, I think, tends towards preserving life and seeking experiences to PROLONG the high. But then, maybe I just ask too much from life. Dunno. But I'm glad there's diversity down here and so long as I don't have to follow I'm glad to hear about the journeys of others.
May the Force Be Always With Thee!
Oh never mind! Sometimes I think of things in a roundabout way! Just forget I said it, nothing to see here, go on now!
May the force be with you too!
Palzang
Joe
Yes, that's a picture of a Vietnamese Buddhist monk who is protesting, not the war, but the governmental crackdown of Buddhism itself at the time of the war. He is a national treasure in Vietnam and his heart is said to have survived the flames and is guarded and kept in a special memorial for people to visit.
I feel very much like you do about that photo and others like it. In fact, it's one of the factors that brought me to Buddhism. When I looked closely, as you did, and saw his face, the peace and deep meditation he was in even though his body was burning, I was overwhelmed and very deeply inspired to find the same serenity even if I could only have a fraction of what he had developed.
I've also seen film footage of this event. Astounding. This is proof to any who have the ability to look that there is something in this world we can turn to that will help us develop our minds so profoundly we can indeed find true peace and happiness.
So if you put aside the horror of the event and see it in a different light, it is actually one of the most powerful and beautiful images of the truth the Buddha taught. Absolutely amazing. Perhaps this is what your mind reacted to? I know mine certainly did.
I realise that what I am about to say may seem upsetting to some people and I hope that they will appreciate that it is not my intention.
I am aware that there are other self-immolators for causes they believe in strongly. I was living in a very Irish part of London when Bobby Sands and the other nine IRA prisoners died as a result of their hunger strike. To some they were martyrs, to others it was "good riddance" to terrorists.
And, as I reflect on this, I am aware that there can be a mindset that sees what we call "suicide bombers" as martyrs dying for a cause.
We separate the 'good' from the 'bad' according to prejudgements and opinions.
Exactly! Thank you! :bowdown:
I think you're right, Simon. I've always thought it would be much more productive to try to understand why these people feel a need to sacrifice themselves rather than condemn them for doing so. Of course, the self-immolaters and the hunger strikers didn't take scores of people with them. That is an important difference.
Palzang
Such people with issues are seen as expendable.... :wtf:
so it makes me wonder whether people with mental and physical handicaps are regarded in a particular way by Islam and the Qu'ran, or whether it is just a heinous and callous disregard for life on their part, and a selfish means of carrying out attacks without anyone 'able-bodied' having to suffer....:rant:
Googling, I found this:
[/FONT]
just to show my sources:
For many of us, it is a deep sorrow that we are seeing the beautiful, passionate, accepting and mystical Islam of such writers as Rumi and other Sufis being swamped by a totalitarianism which they would have found hard to recognise as the Q'ranic religion that they celebrated.
When there is The Book, there is always "what it really means" faction. Unhelpful.
So Brigid, can you tell me anything about where you saw the footage? Or just anything that might help me track down something to watch?
I haven't studied the picture like you have JJ, but I've felt strongly about it just the same.
Seems to me that I've read that there were more than a few monks who did this during the mid 1960's as a kind of protest. Thich Naht Hahn has talked about this sort of thing and about these monks.
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english/vietnam/figure/003-htQuangduc.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjRfoGnsk0c
It can be tough to watch, but read the article in the top link first.
And thanks for the links, JJ.
I also had forgotten about the power of the Catholic Church and the role it played in all of this. But there were many factors involved, all in all quite a complex period in history. But it's all in the article...
P.S. I don't know why, but everything about Vietnam and the U.S. from the time of Kennedy until 1975 or so is extremely interesting to me, ever since I was a little kid. When I was around 6 or 7 I used to think I was reborn from an American soldier who died in Vietnam. I used to have all sorts of silly ideas like this. Magical thinking. But something about the whole era had me, and still has me, a bit mesmerized, not least of all Quang Duc's actions and lack of outward reactions.
Hey, thanks, JJ5! That picture has always so horrified me that I was heretofor unable to imagine what you've described. Interesting, not just a statement but also a revelation of a Reality.
As for your links, Thanks again. I find it reassuring that this destruction of life cannot be construed as being consistent with Buddhist doctrine or genuine Buddhist practice. I'm still rereading the above-sourced article from Buddhism today in an attempt to decide for myself whether this was indeed just an "ethical act." Very interesting time in history, and I wish more was said about earlier precedents.
Perhaps you WERE a soldier in that horrible war. At 6 or 7 years old, your mind may have actually recalled events from that time before you were born.
Or I could be wrong!
I wonder if it's a monk who is married.
I know this isn't so unusual in Japan and think it's not so unusual in the US.
http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2005/summer/mel_weitsman.html
It may be a Zen priest living outside of a monastery along with the lay people.
That`s a very interesting question!
Palzang
Wha?
*reads sentence again*
Oh, that's what you meant. Carry on!
(silly!!)
my apologies for the delay in replying...
yes beautifulspringtimefist is my username - i would weep were it my real forename!
i don't know of any video fotage of the vietnamese monks buring to death. i first encountered the image as a teen - on the cover of rage against the machine's self titled album. it's inspired me since though in different ways, over the years.
Palzang, the phrase came from some person who posted something to a diary I had been maintaining on a raw food website. He wrote saying that he'd found the things I'd written interesting, then described himself as a lay zen priest. I've contacted him asking him what this means but he hasn't responded. So I contacted this group. Seems to me I've seen the term in other places but I don't know where. Googling the term came up with some things but I haven't done any serious research of the term.
Never mind, the oceans aren't going to dry up over this issue. But won't it be neat if they do?!