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Annual seal hunt is Canada's shame

MagwangMagwang Veteran
edited May 2008 in Buddhism Today
I'm proud to be Canadaian - except for this. There's no reason for it other than to create jobs. I don't buy the argument that seals eat all the fish - mismanagement killed all the Cod stocks, not seals.

sealhunting_468x642.jpg

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2008
    How people doing these things manage to sleep at night, I'll never know.... I cried my eyes out rescuing a bunny from the road, that had obviously been blinded by Myxomatosis.... So much for being a superior animal.... I despair at times, I really do.....
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited March 2008
    Magwang,

    We have a similar situation here in Oregon where Federal fisheries managers have given permission to Oregon and Washington officials to trap and, if necessary, kill sea lions because of their feeding habits, e.g., they eat thousands of salmon at Bonneville Dam every year (source). What is worse is that the real problem stems from things such as clear-cut logging, industrial pollution, agricultural water usage, and the dams themselves, which kill off large numbers of salmon, disrupt their spawning migrations, et cetera. It's a quick fix that doesn't even target the real problems, and better still, this desision to kill innocent seals for simply trying to survive is considered to be effective "management" of the declining salmon population.

    Jason
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2008
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again... we interfere with the Ntural Balance of Things, mess it up big time, then just create an even bigger mess by 'rectifying' it...
    when we finally blow ourselves to kingdom-come, Nature will then settle, and take her rightful place, and re-build...
    I'm convinced of it.
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited March 2008
    I still hold out hope. We might just be able to colonize and terraform Mars before we really mess up this planet. Then, with the strain we've been putting on Earth being lessened, nature can rebalance and repair itself.
  • jj5jj5 Medford Lakes, N.J. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited March 2008
    bushinoki wrote: »
    I still hold out hope. We might just be able to colonize and terraform Mars before we really mess up this planet. Then, with the strain we've been putting on Earth being lessened, nature can rebalance and repair itself.


    Here! Here! Bushi!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2008
    Oooh, what a treat Mars has in store. I bet it can't wait.

    We've F**ked up this planet, now let's go and colonise another one, and jam that one up too. :rolleyes: :crazy:
  • edited March 2008
    I haven't replied to this post because I risk not using Right Speech. The question of whaling, seal and sea lion culling ... all of these organised slaughters (including the local ones on wild boar) leave me shaking with anger.

    And then I think if they were slugs or something not cute and appealing, would I be so angry? And then I feel shallow.

    I've signed the petitions, I've sent the letters .... nothing happens. Once the Old Feller is gone to his next happy place I will have to buy a small boat and be a little old lady making a solo protest .... and THAT won't have any effect except to get some media attention for ten minutes.
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited March 2008
    Fede, I believe that when we cross that line, and start colonizing other planets, it will be too hard to mess them up like that. Two reasons why our planet is in the shape it's it: Industrial Revolution and current population. Once we colonize and terraform, Mars will be able to handle a few million residents for centuries before it actually starts to become damaged. I think Mars could easily hand a population of a half billion and maintain a balance. Move further out, creating space stations and the like, and we could relocate enough of humanity to restabilize earth.
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Magwang wrote: »
    I'm proud to be Canadaian - except for this. There's no reason for it other than to create jobs. I don't buy the argument that seals eat all the fish - mismanagement killed all the Cod stocks, not seals.

    sealhunting_468x642.jpg
    I couldn't agree more, Magwang. And the small income from these seasonal (a few weeks a year) "jobs" is supposed to justify it??!!??

    A little trivia; Paul Watson (founder of The Sea Shepherds, a very...um...how shall I say it..."forceful" environmental organization) was still working for Greenpeace at the time of the one and only direct action protest by Greenpeace against the seal hunt back in the 70's. Rumour has it that he got fired from Greenpeace for lifting his arm as if to strike one of the hunters who was trying to remove him from of the ice floes. He never actually struck anyone and the pictures of the incident look more like he's trying to pull his arm away from the hunter who's grabbing him. Nonetheless, Greenpeace was, and still is, super strict about any kind of violence, even the slightest appearance of violence, and Paul Watson and Greenpeace parted ways soon after that incident. Greenpeace also suffered terribly for getting involved in the seal hunt that one time and although they never again campaigned against it, their profile was so high in the public's mind they were mistakenly believed to have been a part of subsequent protests by any and all animal rights organizations even though they weren't actually there at all.

    Personal note:

    I have a video taped copy of a seal hunter skinning a mother seal alive while her pup is watching and crying out pitifully. It's footage from that one protest by Greenpeace in the 70's and had I been there I don't know how successful I would have been in upholding the "peace" part of Greenpeace. I probably would have been driven out of my mind with rage and thrown myself at the hunter. The hunt is so obviously, unequivocally, completely and undeniably WRONG on so many levels that the fact it's been allowed to continue to this day is a national shame.
  • edited April 2008
    But is there anything we can actually DO?

    Is there any organised protest this year?
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited April 2008
    There usually is some sort of protest organized although I haven't heard about one so far this year. But if I do I'll let you all know.

    Personally, I think IFAW is an absolutely wonderful organization and whenever I have a few extra dollars I send them along to those good people. The work they do, and have done, is astounding.
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    I wouldn't have a problem with it if the act provided another source of food. But as far as I'm aware, not many people eat seal meat, plus I can't see the short hunting season providing enough food to make a difference worldwide. I'm not exactly the "fur is murder" type, but at least minimize your slaughter to animals that are used for a significant food source, or would normally be considered a true pest. Not something I enjoy watching on the coast, and is nothing more than a life form trying to live it's life.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2008
    I would have to agree with Fede...

    For advanced as humanity is - we act like parasites.

    Through our lack of caring and compassion - we use our resources thinking only of ourselves or for the almighty, corporate dollar. For the few that care - there are the many that don't.

    We'd either start screwing up whatever other planet we migrate to (because once again, we think we'll fix something in an environment we JUST ended up on - one which we have NO IDEA how intricate it is - but it won't stop us from coming up with some dumbass idea on how to fix something we know nothing of - just to find we've screwed it up!) or lose all interest and lay waste to the planet we just left.

    I'm cynical today. Guess I need more coffee.

    -bf
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    I'll drink to that! Coffee I mean...

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    bf, it took us over five thousand years to get to the point where we could screw up our planet like that. There's now way we're going to screw up another one in less than a thousand. And that's if we don't keep moving out. Once we cross that line, I could see the planet restoring itself in a few centuries.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    bushinoki wrote: »
    I could see the planet restoring itself in a few centuries.


    Only if we're all dead...

    Palzang
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Bushi,

    I think most of the environmental damage to this planet has actually occurred in the last 200 years, mostly since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. It doesn't take long to mismanage and destroy one's environment.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Thanks, Boo.

    You saved me having to type the same thing. We did really good until about the last 200 or 300 years.

    Then we went to Hell in a hand basket. :(

    -bf

    P.S. Light reading...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri




    Brigid wrote: »
    Bushi,

    I think most of the environmental damage to this planet has actually occurred in the last 200 years, mostly since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. It doesn't take long to mismanage and destroy one's environment.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Might be more accurate to say we went to hell in a coal car!

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    The last 200 years is what I was referring to. We need two things, an alternate energy source, and the ability to relocate people off this planet, and we'll see the Earth recover from what we've done to it.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Looking at it objectively, humanity resembles a cancer that is eating away at the body of our planet, so perhaps the best thing is to get rid of humanity!

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Yes, pally, but isn't that counterproductive to the idea of bringing all humanity to enlightenment?
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    I wasn't recommending it as a course of action, just making an observation. Obviously I have a stake in the matter!

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    I know that, but this is where the debate gets interesting. We have a stake in it either way. Should the planet continue to be abused for too long, it won't matter what we want, we're as good as reduced to the middle ages at the least, if not driven extinct outright. I personally am in the "further studies are needed" crowd, but I do understand that AT BEST this planet can't handle more than a couple more centuries of what we're doing to it. I do believe we haven't crossed the line just yet, as temperature increases haven't been so significant (not to mention recent snowstorms in subtropical locations) that it actually affects us. But we need to start putting effort into what I've been talking about in this thread.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    There are some scientists who believe that global warming will actually have the reverse effect, that it will set off a new ice age. Won't that be fun? Sledding in July down the Hudson Glacier...

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    And the reason they believe so is that if the ice caps melt, then the Jet Stream will die off, thus releasing all that cold artic air into the rest of the world. As for me, I'm for dispersing the population and finding alternative energy sources before I'm sledding down Mt. Shasta in the middle of July.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Can't you do that now?

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Not quite, there are Glaciers on Shasta, but any sort of winter sport engaged in the summer is dangerous in the extreme, as a sudden crack can appear out of nowhere.

    A thought, perhaps what we're going through with global warming is so we can learn how to manage the climates of inhospitable planets and terraform them.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Assuming we ever get to one. We may not be around that long.

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    Well, I prefer to be an optimist about it.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2008
    From what I understand - there have been many instances of "global warming" caused by nature itself. Something to do with the amount of gas created by animals and plant life - then causes the build up of too much plankton - which then slows the cycles of the oceans current and voila!, Ice Age.

    At least that's what I've read...

    -bf
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited April 2008
    bf, on top of solar cycles, variations in the Earths orbit, variations in the Lunar orbit (which affects the tides), and so forth.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited May 2008
    Update:

    Here is a letter I wrote to my representative:
    Rep. Rosenbaum,

    As a citizen of Portland, Oregon, I would like to voice my deep concern
    over an issue that is important to me and others of my community in the
    hope that you will take action-I would like to address is the plight of
    the sea lions at Bonneville Dam. While I understand that salmon is a
    valuable resource of Oregon, as well as the Pacific Northwest in
    general, that fact alone does not seem like a reasonable enough argument
    to kill innocent sea lions that are doing nothing more than attempting
    to feed themselves. It seems to me that instead of addressing the real
    issues at hand, the sea lions have become an easy scapegoat.

    As a concerend citizen looking into this issue, I have come to the
    conclusion that the main causes of the declining salmon population
    include, but are not limited to, agricultural and industrial water
    pollution, agricultural water usage, dams that disrupt migration routes,
    and over fishing. These are things that are not only known to be harmful
    to the salmon population, but they are things for which we are solely
    responsible. The only thing that the sea lions are guilt of is
    self-preservation. To kill these creatures seems like nothing more than
    a quick fix, one that fails to address the true underlying causes of the
    declining salmon population.

    I am aware that many people depend upon salmon for their livelihood, and
    I certainly advocate trying to protect them so that their numbers
    improve; but we, as an intelligent species, need to face that fact that
    deciding to kill innocent sea lions for simply trying to survive is not
    effective "management" of the declining salmon population. If it were,
    then by the same logic, we should go ahead and kill any other species
    that prey upon salmon such as bears, osprey, otters, et cetera. I
    realize that this program is being limited to certain key areas such as
    the Bonneville Dam, but this still does not make it any more acceptable
    to me or many other Oregonians.

    Therefore, as a concerned citizen, I would like to petition you to do
    whatever you can to (i) stop this barbaric practice and (ii) review the
    real causes of the declining salmon population, e.g., agricultural and
    industrial water pollution, agricultural water usage, clear-cut logging,
    dams that disrupt migration routes, over fishing, et cetera. At the
    very least, I think that doing everything to trap and relocate offending
    sea lions [into the wild, not captivity] is a more humane option than
    simply killing them. If there is anything that you are able to do to
    help address this issue, I would strongly urge you to do so. Thank you
    for taking the time to read this letter.

    Sincerely,

    Jason M.

    Here is the reply I received:
    Dear Jason,

    Thank you for taking the time to write Rep Rosenbaum about the
    current sea lion situation at the Bonneville Dam. Last Wednesday, April
    23rd, the Humane Society of the United States and the Wild Fish
    Conservatory, after being turned down by a Portland judge, took their
    case to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which issued an injunction
    blocking any killing. The judges scheduled a hearing on the case on May
    8 in Pasadena, Calif. Currently no sea lions can be killed and only
    trapping is allowed.

    It is clear that there are more factors influencing the decline
    of salmon than just sea lions. Salmon habitat has been continuously
    altered by humans for decades and it is finally taking a noticeable toll
    on local salmon populations. Rep Rosenbaum agrees that there needs to a
    fundamental change in salmon management and habitat preservation. We
    need to begin to truly address the negative impacts agriculture,
    pollution, water runoff etc. have on salmon populations and look for
    more expansive management practice than just removing the sea lions.

    Again thank you for taking the time to write. Receiving such
    comments assists in understanding the concerns of citizens in District
    42. Please feel free to contact the office again regarding this or any
    other issue.

    All the best,

    Megan Osborne
    Staff to
    Rep Diane Rosenbaum
    Speaker Pro Tempore
    District 42
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2008
    Way to go...!

    If you can, find out wht the decision is on the 8th - that would be cool...
    Thanks Jason.
  • MagwangMagwang Veteran
    edited May 2008
    bushinoki wrote: »
    ... Once we colonize and terraform, Mars will be able to handle a few million residents for centuries before it actually starts to become damaged. ...

    Good idea, let's contract the work out to Halliburton, Bechtel and Blackwater.

    ::
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited May 2008
    Screw halliburton, they can't even hande the logistics behind one war properly. Granted, their civilian employees are as much at risk as coalition forces, but still, if they can't handle a war, how are they to handle the pressure of building a colony and terraforming a planet. We could do a lot better. Oh, and where is this oil we supposedly invaded for. Sheesh. Can't even get a few oil platforms up and running.
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  • Well cur I guess your superior grammar skills have shown the idiots!

    Seriously though seals are cute so, we get angry. He is going to kill it in one hit it looks like which is nicer than they are to chickens and cattle in the USA being raised for food. I think this might be what cur was trying to convey.

    As for humans destroying the plant and blah blah well that is human nature in my opinion and I accepted it long ago. I'm just sitting back watching the show seeing will mankind evolve (mentally) before he ends his own species? I have no emotional investment in it any more, I just find it interesting at this point. I think the answer is, probably not, although it maybe something else that wipes us out first.
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  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    edited January 2011
    I still hold out hope. We might just be able to colonize and terraform Mars before we really mess up this planet. Then, with the strain we've been putting on Earth being lessened, nature can rebalance and repair itself.
    it is more efficient to live respecting natural armony.
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  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • edited January 2011
    Cur, there's no problem with people killing seals for subsistence. That's not what people are objecting to. The killing of those seal pups is only to sell the skins, and the killing is done by non-Natives, they're only in it for the money. They let the meat rot where they found it. Surely you're not ok with that. They don't use the seal oil for lamps or heat, they just skin the animal, and take the skin, and leave the rest behind.
  • The problem with this discussion is that facts and emotions get mixed up. My recollection is that the harvesting of whitecoats was stopped some years ago due to the cute factor. I'm guessing but there are probably fisheries observers on the ice now to ensure that the killing is carried out in as humane a way as possible. Apparently the industry is opening up markets for the meat and oil in China as we speak. In most harvests of sea life in Canada, First Nations people are involved in the management and the harvest at some level. The populations of seals and sea lions on the west coast is increasing exponentially. I would support a harvest by First Nations people.
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  • [B][SIZE=2]Looking at it objectively, humanity resembles a cancer that is eating away at the body of our planet, so perhaps the best thing is to get rid of humanity!

    Palzang
    [/SIZE][/B]
    no more (voluntary) births for ~2 years may help...
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