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Graduation Present?!

edited June 2008 in General Banter
Well, it won't quite be a gift since I'll have to pay for it, but it will certainly top any graduation present that I might get this week.

My uncle is a big time gun collector. His expertise and subsequently, his arsenal of weapons, consist mostly of WWI up through the end of the Korean War. He said he'd be happy to sell me one of his guns for just $100! I get to see him this weekend, and we're going out shooting at a range in the next couple weeks hopefully. I don't know what exactly he'd be willing to sell, but I'd personally love to get the German Kararbiner 1898, better known as the Kar 98. It was used from the Great War up through the fall of the Third Reich.

I'm looking forward to being a collector myself as I get older. Any other collectors out there?

IMG_2189_edited.jpg

722618689_l.jpg

*That is not me by the way. It's just a random picture I found of the gun.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited May 2008
    I have to say, contrary as it may seem, I do think some of these older guns are a work of art. Chiefly because they were crafted and assembled entirely by hand, and they were very often innaccurate....!

    Modern weaponry is intensely ugly. In more ways than one.

    I didn't think it was you in the 'photo.... The Avatar is obviously the portrait..... I knew that....!
  • edited May 2008
    I collect teddy bears in a minor way which is still not getting rid of attachment - which I would imagine includes collecting anything. Divesting oneself of any non-essential material goods is supposed to be the ideal.

    I'll reserve judgement on the suitability of collecting weapons, if you don't mind. Others more experienced in Buddhist teaching might be able to comment on the mindfulness of that.
  • edited May 2008
    I just love the idea of being able to actually hold history in my hands. Books are great and all, but to really feel history in your hands...and shoot stuff too!
    I have to say, contrary as it may seem, I do think some of these older guns are a work of art. Chiefly because they were crafted and assembled entirely by hand, and they were very often innaccurate....!

    I hate to tell you, but the K98 along with most of the Great War weaponry was unbelievably accurate for its time. Its predecessor, the smooth bore musket, was lethal at around 50 meters or so. In contrast, the gun pictured (K98) is accurate anywhere up to 600 meters! That's a pretty big leap to make in a single generation.
    Modern weaponry is intensely ugly. In more ways than one.

    On the bright side, it's not too modern.
    I didn't think it was you in the 'photo.... The Avatar is obviously the portrait..... I knew that....

    Naturally! :D
    I collect teddy bears in a minor way which is still not getting rid of attachment

    Don't forget who the teddy bear was named after; a raving jingoist who hunted elephants!

    But don't worry. I can't remember the last time I've heard of anyone being killed around here with a rifle of any sort, let alone a German Mauser.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited May 2008
    Don't forget who the teddy bear was named after; a raving jingoist who hunted elephants!


    Ted Kennedy?

    Palzang
  • edited May 2008
    Palzang wrote: »


    Ted Kennedy?

    Palzang

    :lol:

    Try a Republican! ;)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited May 2008
    :lol:

    Try a Republican! ;)


    And indict another!
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited May 2008
    OK, but Ted has hunted a few elephants (Republicans) in his day!

    Palzang
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited May 2008
    Either or, Pally. Despite the fact that the same Teddy was also hailed as one of the greatest natural conservators of his day, being the one who instituted the US Park service, as well as dedicated Yellowstone as the First National Park. Not quite defending him, just reminding people there is good and bad in everyone.

    Oh, KoB, I know how you feel. I purchased a katana some time back, it was WWII era. It was awesome, the first time I held that sword, knowing that a Japanese Officer had carried it into battle. It's safely stowed away right now, but knowing it's still there gives me the chills still.
  • edited May 2008
    If you put aside Teddy's imperial ambitions, I think you find yourself a very good man. On a personal level, he was almost surreal. (He lost the vision in his right eye during a boxing match with a general in the White House)

    He is certainly one of my personal heroes thanks in part to the rugged lifestyle he pursued and his philosophy in general. The most astounding thing to me is the fact that he was nearly assassinated during the 1912 presidential run. The bullet was slowed down somewhat by his eye glass case and his prepared speech in his breast pocket. He was bleeding somewhat, but he shrugged it off and continued on with his 90 minute speech. He was quoted shortly after as saying, "It takes more than a bullet to kill a Bull Moose!"

    You can't help but admire that.
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited May 2008
    KoB, remember that "Manifest Destiny" was the philosophy of the day. Teddy Roosevelt lived during the "Wild West" period of American History. The actions of many American leaders during that period were wrong, but it is somewhat forgivable because they were raised to believe certain things.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited May 2008
    bushinoki wrote: »
    KoB, remember that "Manifest Destiny" was the philosophy of the day. Teddy Roosevelt lived during the "Wild West" period of American History. The actions of many American leaders during that period were wrong, but it is somewhat forgivable because they were raised to believe certain things.

    But isn't that precisely the problem, Bushi? Look at the 'certain things': the inferiority of non-white 'races' and of women as one example. On the other hand, am I not right that President Theodore Roosevelt believed in universal health care centrally funded? Did you mean that?

    And, of course, as you point out, the pernicious, fraudulent and genocidal doctrine of "manifest destiny" gives one little confidence in the 'good' in "good old days".
  • bushinokibushinoki Veteran
    edited May 2008
    Simon, the American Expansion period was what it was. Remember that the US wasn't the only nation to have a "Manifest Destiny" frame of mind. Imperialism was rampant throughout the world, as Great Britain, France, and Spain led Europed in a colonization race, grabbing land where ever they could. However, much good came from the era as well. Contact with cultures that we would have known nothing about, the spread of Buddhist doctrine, and eventually the aftermath of two wars, which brought about the end of outright imperialism and the 60 year stalemate known as the cold war.

    As for Teddy Roosevelt favoring universal healthcare, he never followed through with it because he saw the same problem I did. Take the profit out, and you take the desire to innovate new technologies, therapies, and treatments. And health insurance was unheard of in his day, so subsidizing something that didn't exist wasn't an option.
  • edited June 2008
    It's always a bit misleading to judge people from the past by our own standards. We have to take into account the moral, physical and scientific conditions of their times to understand their behaviour.

    Captain Bligh (of Mutiny on the Bounty fame) was considered by his superiors a real "softie" by his superiors because, compared to the normal conditions on HM ships, Bligh treated his men very well and it was even suggested at his Court Martial that it was his own fault the mutiny happened because he hadn't been hard enough on his men. It was only his excellent seamanship in getting his loyal crew to safety in the small boat in which they were set adrift, that got him off.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited June 2008
    Knitwitch wrote: »
    It's always a bit misleading to judge people from the past by our own standards. We have to take into account the moral, physical and scientific conditions of their times to understand their behaviour.

    Captain Bligh (of Mutiny on the Bounty fame) was considered by his superiors a real "softie" by his superiors because, compared to the normal conditions on HM ships, Bligh treated his men very well and it was even suggested at his Court Martial that it was his own fault the mutiny happened because he hadn't been hard enough on his men. It was only his excellent seamanship in getting his loyal crew to safety in the small boat in which they were set adrift, that got him off.

    And, of course, we cannot forget Bligh's enormous contribution to botanical knowledge from his subsequent voyages: Kew Gardens would not exist without his discoveries.
  • edited June 2008
    When it comes to judging people from different eras than our own, I think the best way to go about doing that is to ask whether the sum total of good outweighed whatever evil they might have done in their lives. Roosevelt certainly was a bit of a war monger in the days leading up to the Spanish-American War (and he fought in it as well).

    But...keep in mind that he also won the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating a peace between Russia and Japan. We have him to thank for many of the national parks in America today. Remember too that he was sharply criticized for having invited a black man to come dine with him in the White House. So in a way, he was a bit ahead of his times.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2008
    Actually when it comes to 'judging people' from whenever...

    We shouldn't 'Judge'.


    Full stop.
  • edited June 2008
    federica wrote: »
    Actually when it comes to 'judging people' from whenever...

    We shouldn't 'Judge'.


    Full stop.


    No, we shouldn't. Doesn't stop us now and then though, does it? :lol::lol:
  • edited June 2008
    federica wrote: »
    Actually when it comes to 'judging people' from whenever...

    We shouldn't 'Judge'.


    Full stop.

    I was expecting this response sooner or later. But I don't see how it plays out practically. Consider this example....

    Mr. Jones is 50 years old. He is a loving father and grandfather. He volunteers at the animal shelter and helps his elderly neighbors with their house upkeep. Despite his fondness for drinking, he is otherwise a very good man.

    Full Stop!

    Who am I to judge such a person as being good? His actions might be good, but that does not mean that he is necessarily good. He certainly can't be good all the time. So it would be very unwise to label someone like him as "good." We shouldn't label anyway, right?

    I believe judging people is not only a good thing, but a necessary thing. Everybody judges other people. If people treat us well, we judge them as being good. If they don't treat us well, we judge them much less favorably.

    How is one supposed to commend the good if we cannot judge, or condemn the evil for that matter? We judge genocide as bad for good reasons and we judge selflessness and charity as good for good reasons. Is it wrong to think this way?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2008
    Judge the action, not the actor.
    Judge the deed, not the do-er.

    The guy is not stupid.
    he just does stupid things.
    The man is not Good.
    But he does Good things.

    And then we discover we're talking about the same person.
    So who's right?

    It's all relative.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2008
    Knitwitch wrote: »
    No, we shouldn't. Doesn't stop us now and then though, does it? :lol::lol:

    You're right.
    It doesn't.
    But it should.

    I will be the first to agree and admit that I have done this.
    Repeatedly, and often.

    but I have a tendency to keep "judgemental" discussions private.... that is, with people I feel very comfortable discussing such issues with.
    I don't generally make my feelings known on public fora, if I can possibly help or avoid it.

    But even this might be construed as hypocritical, and two faced.
    Private or public, it's the same thing.
    I can't, I suppose, in any way justify doing one thing, and doing the other....
    Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech...
    Public, private.
    It's the same thing.

    Mindfulness.

    Ok, that's food for thought......

    Thanks KW...!:thumbsup:
  • edited June 2008
    The "us" in that post, was a general "us" not a you and I "us". I am sure that many of us on this board have indulged in judgemental or critical discussion and then realised we shouldn't ... none of us (we reading this) are perfect.

    My original post was wrongly worded too - I should have said "judging people's actions", not judging people. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

    As for striving for the highest ideals and failing, finding ourselves indulging in less that Right speech, thought etc ............... umm, isn't that just being totally human, but the realisation that it is wrong is the path which will lead to enlightenment?

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2008
    One of the hardest things I am learning, is how difficult it is to remain Mindful....

    There was a discussion on another Forum about the importance of remaining "in the Moment".

    One of the board elders, (my term) posted this comment...
    A present moment free from dukkha.
    A present moment with Wisdom and understanding.
    These are not simply guaranteed by "living in the moment".

    So whilst we need to remain 'In the moment', that in itself, is insufficient, not to say completely useless, unless it is underpinned by Mindfulness.

    Mindfulness, Moment by Moment.

    What a Challenge.....!!
  • edited June 2008
    Yes, it is a kind of mental patting the tummy and rubbing the head exercise.

    I too have problems following my own precepts - trying to kind, trying to treat everyone the same and as if they were my close family ........... it's not easy. But we try. We keep on failing and we keep on trying. Otherwise we might as well give up and be as selfish and greedy and materialist as everyone else ............... and then what kind of mess would it be?

    :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2008
    Ooops...
    I think I might have taken poor KoB's thread a little off-topic...
    Sorry 'bout that, KoB!

    If you'd rather I trimmed the thread, I'll put the posts elsewhere....

    we do tend to chat on here tho' don't we?

    Which I don't think is an entirely bad thing, because we do get some great discussions going...
    But let me know if you'd prefer to have them moved, and I'll create a new thread, maybe....
  • edited June 2008
    Actually, I was mistaken. I will not in fact be getting the German Mauser K98. I will in fact soon be purchasing a Mosin Nagant 91/30 Hex rifle. It would be very similar to what this soldier is carrying here...

    mosin-nagant-294145Mosin.jpg

    It's a Russian rifle typically used by snipers in the 2nd World War. I got to see it the other day and hold it for a while. It's such a strange feeling holding these old guns, knowing almost without a doubt that the weapon you are firing killed someone over 60 years ago.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited June 2008
    Perhaps you need to remember that the majority of shots fired by soldiers in WW1 and WW2 are now known to have been fired to miss.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2008
    No wonder there were such few deaths. :(
  • edited June 2008
    Perhaps you need to remember that the majority of shots fired by soldiers in WW1 and WW2 are now known to have been fired to miss.

    That's very true. With the German rifle at least, you can be almost absolutely certain that whoever originally owned the weapon died. Most of the imported German Mausers actually come from Russia and were originally confiscated from German prisoners. Hardly anyone survived the Soviet prisons.
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