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getting bullies in trouble?
Ok, so i get bullied a lot in school and my mom thinks i should name names so they get in trouble but you are supposed to forgive your enemies right? my mom says that I need to so that they don't bully any one else. should i get them in trouble?
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because forgiving them is not the same as letting them get away with it.
You can still forgive them, but hold them responsible and accountable for their behaviour.
If someone breaks into my house and steals my things, he is punishable by the Law. I can forgive him all I want, but he's still got to face the Music....
Besides, if they think they can get away with it with you, they might pick on someone weaker, and less able to act in the way you might.
They might do some far more severe damage, if you don't act now to stop them, and potentially protect someone else.....
My dad suffered some horrible bullies in his late grade school years. During the summer, one of them spat on him while he was working. So my dad simply jumped over the fence and punched him in the face a few times. He was never bothered again.
Chuck, since it sounds like multiple bullies, I would suggest turning them in next school day.
Turn them in anyway. But if that doesn't work, then I would start pumping some iron and...just pump some iron no matter what happens.
First of all, my deep sympathy. Being bullied is terrible and the most important thing is to protect yourself, both physically and psychologically. The results of prolonged oppression can be significant.
For that reason, and because the other end of the 'transaction', the bullies themselves, are also at risk, it is vital that you inform another person as soon as possible. Why? And who?
Why?
Because bullying relies on secrecy and secrets (which are only lies in make-up) damage the liars and the lied-to. The culture of not 'telling' is the strongest weapon in the bullies' armoury, alongside the fiction that 'nothing can be done'.
Who?
The first people would, in an ideal world, be parents. These are your guardians and our task is to protect our young. At your age, you may be entering (or have already entered) the dark tunnel of parent-child conflict and communication with your parent(s) may be difficult. Only you can discern, in the quiet of your own space and refreshed by a time of silence, if there is a person among your parental figures who would hear you out and would be on your side.
Your school or college may have a teacher whom you trust or whom your peers trust.
Tell your friends but don't take their advice.
If all else fails, go to the police. Yes! The police - admittedly, I offer this from the pov of a Brit but, even though my young son had 'come to their notice' a number of times, our local police were immensely supportive when we reported threats by a local bully. We discovered that we were not the first to make such a complaint and that ours was just the one that was needed for local services to swing into action.
You deserve protection.
You are immensely valuable.
You are unique and a vital part of all that is.
We need you.
We are here for you.
Bullying is a horribly complicated system of layers of complicity and secrecy. Those doing the bullying have probably been victims themselves. Those going along with the bullying are usually terrified that if they don't join in, even by egging on the more active ones, they themselves will become victims.
Bullying is a self-perpetuating cycle. Those being victimised (especially boys if I may be sexist for a moment) are sometimes too ashamed to say anything for fear of being thought a sissy.
I would say - tell everyone. Your parents, your school teachers, even the police - because you can put a stop to it - you can save them doing it to others and if your school is worth its salt, you might even be responsible for the bullies getting the kind of psychological help they obviously need to stop this behaviour.
Feel like being a hero Chuck? Go on, tell someone. And if they threaten you - keep on telling. This culture of "don't tell tales" has to stop.
Same here. Back then the teachers didn't want to know and the advice was "hit them back" with the implication that if you don't, then you deserve it! Fine in theory but what about when it's a gang of bigger nasty kids, or a complete psycho?
Nowadays the issue is taken seriously, so go through whatever channels are considered 'proper' at your school to make sure this is on record. Guaranteed they are doing it to other kids as well. Your report will help to end their activities and you don't know how many other people have already reported them.
Forgive them later (when they stop).
Good Luck
Kris
I'm afraid I will have to agree with our young friend KoB on this one (OY!). Telling school officials is only likely to make things worse, not better. Then the bullies will get serious about harrassing you and possibly worse.
I have a friend who has a son in second grade, and he has been bullied quite a bit this year. One kid kicked him in the gut so hard (with no provocation I might add) that he started bleeding internally. He went to the emergency room, and fortunately it stopped on its own, but still, that's pretty serious bullying. So my friend went to the principal about that incident and others. In fact, she has gone to the principal a number of times. The kicking incident brought some action, i.e., the offending kids and their parents were called into the office. Did the bullying stop? No. Neither the principal nor the parents really cared and would rather not be bothered. That's all you can really expect from underpaid functionaries, and if the parents actually cared about their kids, the kids probably wouldn't feel the need to go out and bully other kids.
So what to do? Well, it's been my experience that bullies are just that. They're not a real threat, just weak blowhards who are taking out their inadequacies on someone else they see as even weaker than themselves. They don't stand up to confrontation. If you allow them to bully you, they'll keep doing it. If you stand up to them, almost certainly they'll back down and leave you alone. There is a small chance they'll actually fight you, in which case you can bring assault and battery charges against them and get rid of them permanently!
When I was in junior high school (an archaic name for middle school), I somehow attracted the attention of a bully. I had no idea who he was, had never seen him before, and had no idea why he thought I was a good target. He just started following me home from school screaming epithets at me. I just ignored him. Finally one day he showed up with a "friend" and really started getting obnoxious, I guess to show off for his buddy. Finally I had all I could stand, threw down my books, turned to him and gave him a shove that sent him flying (literally) into a picket fence that almost gave way. He looked at me with total fear, slunk off with his cohort, and I never, ever saw him again.
Anyway, that's my opinion. Never be afraid to stand up for yourself.
Palzang
I'm glad you've come to see the light.
Palzang
I don't understand why charges weren't brought against the bullies when the child was brought to the hospital with internal bleeding. Surely that's considered assault...?
I have to disagree with you and KOB because I know from experience that violence breeds violence. I think the Buddha said something about this, didn't he...?
Chuck,
As others have said, go to everyone you can go to. Go to your parents, the school principal, teachers, counselors and if nothing else works please go to the police. The threat of violence is a criminal offense and if these bullies should lay a hand on you it's assault. Pure and simple. You DON'T have to put up with it nor sink to their level by reacting with violence and perpetuating the problem.
In the U.S. there have been some high profile suicides by young teens who were bullied so badly they felt they had no other choice but to kill themselves. As a result of these and other cases, the issue of bullying is being treated in a whole new way. It's being taken very seriously and there are procedures being put into place all over the U.S. (and other countries) to deal with it.
Demand the right to live your life in safety and keep demanding it until you're safe. This issue doesn't only involve you and the bullies. It involves everyone in your community. Everyone deserves to live a life without fear and without having to cause violence in order to defend oneself.
Please let us know what happens.
Bullying relies on secrecy and lies. Telling the story, opening the closed box of distortion and misdirection, is at the heart of ending it.
Some of us are old enough to remember the liberation struggles against the institutional bullying of racism, sexism and homophobia. That there has been any sort of improvement has come from speaking up. The battered and abused partner can, of course, turn round and strike their abuser but they may pay a terrible price if the result is the death of the abuser. Better far has been the heightening of the profile of domestic abuse. It is no longer OK (over here, at least) for a husband (say) to beat his wife and claim it as his 'right'. Why? Because women have had the courage to speak up.
Speak up!
Join with others!
Organise!
and use what structures exist, however frail.
In the end, a Barak Obama could not have aspired to candidacy for the presidency had the struggle against racial discrimination remained a history of rioting. The involvement of the Supreme Court has been crucial. It astonishes me that, in the USA, no class action on bullying has yet reached the Court.
The cycle of violence ends when bad people stop being bad, not when the innocent simply roll over. And it's not 'sinking to their level' if you aggressively resist tyranny. Violence has its uses.
You are not a bully if you refuse to let yourself be tormented. Defending your own dignity does not mean that you invariably become the school bully. It means that you respect yourself enough not to put up with such nonsense.
I don't see how you can equate "standing up for yourself" to becoming a bully. At the elementary school level we're talking about (in the case of my friend), you have to keep things really simple, primitive you might say. That's the level these kids are operating on. They don't yet have the higher control centers clicked on, so they operate at a very basic level of function compared, hopefully, to adults. Standing up for yourself doesn't mean acting like a bully, it means not being willing to take abuse. If that means punching someone in the nose, then do it. I wouldn't advise the same for an adult. It's true that violence does beget violence. However, it's also true that compassion in reality means giving others what they need, and sometimes that's a poke in the schnoze. Hopefully it will wake up the bully to the futility of his actions and force him (or her) to deal with his/her problems in a more positive manner.
I also feel - strongly - that the systems (if there even are any) in place in American public schools are completely and totally incapable of handling the problem of bullies. Most teachers in public schools are grossly underpaid, which means the jobs attract a poorer quality person than they would if they were paid what they were worth. My friend's solution was to take her kids out of the public school and will be sending them to a private Waldorf school next year where things will be a lot better and the teachers are actually competent. It's a sad commentary on the state of public education in the US.
Yes, Boo, technically kicking someone in the stomach so hard that they suffer internal bleeding is assault and battery, but you don't bring charges against second graders. At least things haven't degenerated to that level yet.
Palzang
You astonish me sometimes, Brother Palzang. A Buddhist monk who recommends solving personal problems by violence?
i could write more but this thread is not about us, but about Chuck so here are some ideas, Chuck:
1. As soon as you get to your new school, cast around to discover who is the most trustworthy adult - it could be a teacher or a pastor/chaplain or the local barber. Adults hold a lot of power, get it on your side.
2. Find out (you call yourself a 'nerd' - well done) the various support groups for the bullied. They are there, on the Net. YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
3. Stay in touch with us. We may argue among ourselves as to the best action to take but please be assured that we will be here for you. The arguments and disagreements are signs of our close adherence to the tenets of friendship.
Good luck in Arkansas and see you soon.
Make new friends - don't tell too much about yourself to start with (that can often be a big mistake when you are new in the neighbourhood and want to be liked but it just gives people ammunition to use against you if they take agin you)
I hope you are happy there and you will be in my prayers .
In your new school and community, try to always take the difficult situations with wit and humor. That alone can sometimes be disarming to people who don't treat you well.
otherwise known as corn on the KoB....:p
oh stoppit....:D
That was a quick decision, wasn't it? I hope you can check in with us as soon as you get a chance to catch your breath. I'm wishing you a wonderful new life and new start in Arkansas.
Your friend,
Boo
Palzang and KOB,
I can certainly understand where you're coming from. One of my favourite fictional characters is Dai Bando from "How Green Was My Valley".
But I still disagree. lol!
I don't agree with your assessment, Palzang, that kids in and around 2nd grade are operating at a basic or primitive level at all. In fact I have a vivid memory from my year in that grade that involves bullying.
When I was in 2nd grade I went to an English speaking public school and we had to share our buses with the kids from the French speaking school which was just around the corner from ours. The buses came for us first then we picked up the French kids. (This was in Montreal, if anyone's confused.) There was this pretty little French girl who seemed like the popular one and always got on the bus with a bunch of pals. She was their ring leader and she was really mean.
One day I noticed her tormenting this tiny little black boy and using a marker to write on his face. I don't know what she and her horrible friends were saying to him because I didn't speak French yet but it was clear she was bullying him and it was terrible to watch. He was really tiny, at least half her size, and although he never cried it was clear he was scared and humiliated. I didn't do anything about it at the time. I just rode the bus and got off at my stop.
But it ate away at me all night. I went from being mad as hell and wanting to slap her face to feeling so sorry for the little boy and back again. It wasn't my first taste of injustice but it bothered the hell out of me.
I don't remember how long I let it go on but I remember the day my friends and I figured out a way to stop it. As soon as the little boy got on the bus we invited him to sit with us, in the middle, and that was the end of that. We figured it out and we were only in 2nd grade, not operating "at a very basic level of function" as you say. I'm grateful to this day that I didn't go up to her and slap her face like I wanted to at the time.
Here's another one...
I used to hang around a cafe/bar in my university days that had a very creative bartender called Bill. He was an artist but also had big muscles and had been in his share of pretty violent fights in his day.
One night this older guy came in alone, drunk, belligerent and started hitting on the university girls in a very rude way. He was just itching for a fight. He was standing up at the bar and when his first beer was finished Bill wouldn't serve him another. (It's against the law in that province to serve alcohol to someone who's clearly intoxicated.) The guy started to make a fuss and I guess Bill wasn't in the mood for a fight that night so he turned the music off, turned all the lights on and told everyone in the bar to stare at this guy. Within a few seconds the guy left the bar muttering to himself. No fight, no broken teeth, nothing. The music was turned back on, the lights were turned low and the bad vibe disappeared.
My point is, there's more than one way to deal with bullies.
Here in Canada we have the Kids Help Phone (they have the same thing in Australia) that helps kids of all ages with issues like bullying. I'm sure there are similar programs in the U.S.
I'm going to be blunt; I don't think machoism is a very useful thing to perpetuate. I think thoughtfulness, reasonableness, creativity and empathy are, and what better time to instill these things in children than when they're still young?
I'm pretty sure we're going to end up just agreeing to disagree on this one and that's okay. We've had a good discussion about it. How about a compromise? If all other avenues fail and it becomes clear there will be no help coming for the bullied, then they can pop the bully on the nose. How about that?
If poking someone in the nose brings an end to bullying, I'd say that's a small price to pay, wouldn't you? I wasn't talking about shooting them or killing them or permanently disabling them or anything of the sort. Just drawing the line in the sand, that's all. And you don't need to be a fighter to do it.
And yes, there are nonviolent ways to deal with bullies, but they don't always work.
Palzang
we are having bulling issues at both primary and secondary schools with each of my children-it just drives us nuts-so we are deasling with it by empowering our children and showing that force can be returned in equal amounts
in other words take no sh*t.
cheers!
There's a Child Help Phone in Australia too. Look it up. They may have some more solutions for you.
Palzang,
I hear what you're saying. I understand the idea of 'idiot compassion'. It's like 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Good intentions are not actually skillful unless they are combined with wisdom.
My fear is that as aggressive and violent animals trapped in samsara, we are prone to reacting with violence too often, too easily, and with the wrong intentions in our hearts. How many people do we know have the wisdom to understand when and how to use 'compassionate violence'? I don't know any. People who are professionally trained to help the mentally ill, as you said, would know how to use it but adolescents are untrained in this and they are also emotionally unpredictable. It's very easy to get carried away by one's emotions when there are hormones going crazy in your system and your brain hasn't had enough time to fully develop.
Under circumstance like these I believe it's better to teach and practice as much non-violent wisdom as possible before declaring a situation untenable without the use of violence. And no matter what terms you use, 'poking someone in the nose' or whatever, it is extremely difficult to imagine an adolescent understanding how to hit someone in the face with wise and compassionate intention.
I don't like 'black or white' thinking very much but when it comes to violence, whether physical or verbal, violence breeds violence. I can feel it in myself. I know how my jaw and fists clench when I watch a bad guy 'getting his due' in a violent action movie. It feels to me like animal energy. My mind is not calm at all. In fact, my mind is full of anger, vengeance and hatred. And I'm not even in the fight!
My point, if I may reiterate, is that teaching children how to deal with conflict in a creative and non-violent way, giving them the tools, the words, and the confidence to do it knowing they have adults on their side, can go a very long way. I don't think children should be taught to manage conflict by first using their fists. Violence, in any form, should be the very last resort and only if it can be done with a calm mind. It's far too easy to get carried away when we use violence and far too easy for our intention to stand up for ourself, to not accept abuse, to turn into aggression based on anger, fear and hatred. It's extremely important to show children that despite our animal nature we can rise above these baser emotions and motivations and react to conflict in a more restrained, calm and non-violent manner.
Absolutely. I always think of David Carradine in the old Kung Fu series. He never picked a fight and did his level best to walk away or diffuse a situation.
But when those bad guys left him no option, he had the resources to save his hide...
...and then they really deserved all they got:mean::mean::mean:
yeah.
Anyway, good luck in Arkansas.
Kris
Palzang
Roll the 'r's, by the way.
(That's what all farmers say in the UK.....It's the law..... )
Farrrrrrrrrmurrrrrrrrrrrr Chuck.
Palzang
Whaddya mean? You're sitting on our land. Right now we have a ship full of blokes in red coats, carrying muskets heading your way and don't try to tip a crate load of tea on their heads when they dock in New York harbour.
It would be ungentlemanly.:p