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Waking Life: Collective Memory
ajani_mgo
Veteran
I was watching this very-surreal movie "Waking Life", when a scene of a couple lying in-bed came and the girl said something quite-interesting:
Transcript from http://strivinglife.com/waking-life-transcript-with-revisions/05/ (Though my quotation may have some trouble with the stated copyright policy of the site but ahem!)
It sounds a l'il similar to the concept of the tulku being a rebirth of an earlier Master's different existence-parts e.g. a high monk dies and is reborn into three - one reborn from his wisdom; one from his intelligence; one for his wit, or something like that. But here it speaks of a Jungian concept I've always been dang interested in but disappointed with the lack of proper literature surrounding it - a collective memory. Could this be where our rebirth be from? All that dies dies but their memories go into the collective unconscious, and from here we be born.
A just-for-fun question as food for thought. Think this movie's great, but a review of it would be outside the scope of Buddhism 101.
Transcript from http://strivinglife.com/waking-life-transcript-with-revisions/05/ (Though my quotation may have some trouble with the stated copyright policy of the site but ahem!)
....Girl: Yeah. I've been thinking also about something you said.
Guy: What's that?
Girl: Just about reincarnation and where all the new souls come from over time. Everybody always say that they've been the reincarnation of Cleopatra or Alexander the Great. I always want to tell them they were probably some dumb **** like everybody else. I mean, it's impossible. Think about it. The world population has doubled in the past 40 years, right? So if you really believe in that ego thing of one eternal soul, then you have only 50% chance of your soul being over 40. And for it to be over 150 years old, then it's only one out of six.
Guy: Right, so what are you saying? That reincarnation doesn't exist, or that we're all young souls like where half of us are first round humans?
Girl: No, no. What I'm trying to say is that somehow I believe reincarnation is just a - a poetic expression of what collective memory really is. There was this article by this biochemist that I read not long ago, and he was talking about how when a member of our species is born, it has a billion years of memory to draw on. And this is where we inherit our instincts.
It sounds a l'il similar to the concept of the tulku being a rebirth of an earlier Master's different existence-parts e.g. a high monk dies and is reborn into three - one reborn from his wisdom; one from his intelligence; one for his wit, or something like that. But here it speaks of a Jungian concept I've always been dang interested in but disappointed with the lack of proper literature surrounding it - a collective memory. Could this be where our rebirth be from? All that dies dies but their memories go into the collective unconscious, and from here we be born.
A just-for-fun question as food for thought. Think this movie's great, but a review of it would be outside the scope of Buddhism 101.
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Comments
Nice to see you again, Ajani - !!:D
Palzang
Heh, Palzang - that's my working definition too, but one of the things I've always wondered is about the role of a behavioural/cognitive lineage along families and species, not just Darwinist biological lineages. I think they call it Lamarckism. Prior to Darwin's rise to infamy, Lamarckism was quite a central focus of biologists. The possibility that behaviours, instincts, memories can be passed on is to me nearly-synonymous with Jungian collective unconscious, only that while the former affects a family, the latter affects a species. Quite sadly, it's kinda a romance of my own that has its extreme equivalents in fiction e.g. "The Other Memory" in Dune; and of course, Jungian psychoanalysis.
I think of this "collective memory" as a rather-interesting thought experiment though. It emphasizes on the urgency of karma, without any personal strings. It is a "more-noble" definition than what would sometimes, as I've heard before, has its consequences interpreted as "if you don't wanna suffer as a worm in your next life you better do some good."
Actually the part about inheriting aquired characteristics was not the main focus of lamarckianism. The main theory stated that animals tend to lose characteristics they do not require and develop characteristics they do need. No mechanism for this was suggested as they were still a long way from molecular biology. There is still some debate in scientific circles as to whether some organisms, such as single-celled organisms, can show lamarckian inheritance, but it remains controversial.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning on collective consciousness and karma, but I guess you get the main point. Hate to see you in your next life as a toad after all!
Palzang
On the subject of Lamarck, the modern disciple is the Archranter Dawkins and his unproven (and, I think, unprovable) notion of 'memes'. A useful shorthand 'lie-to-children'(vide Patchett) but not much else.
As one of them said to me today: 'If there is no evolution, God must have created Tesco's on the sixth day - so he must have pretty well run out of good ideas.'
I have no doubt that the human psyche is as subject to evolutionary processes as all other 'parts'. Whether any useful evolution has occurred since we came down from the trees is quite another matter.
But I think I should have been more precise - perhaps my main problem is against sociobiology, which is championed by some evolutionary psychologists. I think that I've been influenced by my reading of the 60s' antipsychiatrists nowadays and grown hostile to whatever whenever behaviour and thought is reduced to biology.
I wouldn't think of myself as Cartesian, but I am no Materialist either. In fact I don't know where I actually stand. Lol.
Ajani, what a strong, mature and intelligent young man you have turned into.
We have watched and witnessed your progress over the years, and I admire your level-headedness and common sense. It's such a pleasure to have you here.
Even though I haven't got a single clue what you're talking about.
Senility is tapping me on the shoulder. I really must put the kettle on.....