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Witnessing extreme fear during meditation
This isn't really a question, I'm just putting this out there to see if anybody has some idea of what might be going on.
Anyway, during meditation, I'll start off focusing on my breathing or the sensation of warmth in my hands, keeping an eye on whats going on with my mind. I start to settle in and find some peace and stillness.
Then about ten to 15 minutes in, I'll start to feel numb in my arms, as if they're not there anymore. This spreads down into my hands, then my shoulders and so on. Then I start to fell like I'm leaning over and I'm going to fall, like I lost all sense of balance and I also get the sense that I'm being pushed, this all culminates in the feeling that I'm about to die and at some point I have to move to get some sensation happening again, just so I know everything is all right and that I'm still here.
Now, I try to last as long as I can in this state, just watching it, letting it happen. And I know that in a way this is a good thing, its giving something to watch. But I've not been able to get to another side of that yet.
I should point out that I've had mental health issues for most of my life (Diagnosed bi-polar, no meds) and I've had regular random panic attacks since I can remember. I'm pretty sure I have this feeling in a lower background volume constantly throughout the day, and have had (until I got back into practice) serious issues with concepts regarding infinity and an end to conciousness which have been bad enough to make functioning in daily life pretty hard work.
I don't really know what this means, I think during meditation I'm facing my fears and attachment to life head on. Though of course I could be doing something wrong.
Has anybody else had something like this before? Google doesn't really flag anything pertinent to me. :-/
Any advice, insight or encouragement out there for a n00b like me?
p.s I'm not going to let this stop me from meditating.
Anyway, during meditation, I'll start off focusing on my breathing or the sensation of warmth in my hands, keeping an eye on whats going on with my mind. I start to settle in and find some peace and stillness.
Then about ten to 15 minutes in, I'll start to feel numb in my arms, as if they're not there anymore. This spreads down into my hands, then my shoulders and so on. Then I start to fell like I'm leaning over and I'm going to fall, like I lost all sense of balance and I also get the sense that I'm being pushed, this all culminates in the feeling that I'm about to die and at some point I have to move to get some sensation happening again, just so I know everything is all right and that I'm still here.
Now, I try to last as long as I can in this state, just watching it, letting it happen. And I know that in a way this is a good thing, its giving something to watch. But I've not been able to get to another side of that yet.
I should point out that I've had mental health issues for most of my life (Diagnosed bi-polar, no meds) and I've had regular random panic attacks since I can remember. I'm pretty sure I have this feeling in a lower background volume constantly throughout the day, and have had (until I got back into practice) serious issues with concepts regarding infinity and an end to conciousness which have been bad enough to make functioning in daily life pretty hard work.
I don't really know what this means, I think during meditation I'm facing my fears and attachment to life head on. Though of course I could be doing something wrong.
Has anybody else had something like this before? Google doesn't really flag anything pertinent to me. :-/
Any advice, insight or encouragement out there for a n00b like me?
p.s I'm not going to let this stop me from meditating.
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Comments
May I ask what else is going on when you are experiencing these body feelings? What changes in your auditory, visual, olfactory, etc. channels?
I will be sure to watch my other senses more evenly when I next meditate though.
Secondly, I would venture that your experiences are by no means unique or isolated. I would suggest, as a possible remedy, that you alter your mode of meditation...
Thich Nhat Hahn mentions several different ways in which people can meditate and keep themselves Present, in the Moment, other than sitting and being still. Perhpas you might benefit from that.
May I also wish you well and continued serenity with regard to your bi-polar condition.
A good friend on this forum (Knitwitch) is also bi-polar and has a very interesting diary/blog on her progress.
You may like to take a look at that, too.....
On a final and positive note, don't forget that the Buddha himself had dreadful experiences during his Meditation practice under the Bhodi tree.... Mara and his daughters had a whale of a time tormenting him and attempting to beguile him with their attentions.
He got through it.....
Thank you very, very much!!
Funny you should say that, I had that In mind when it started!
But you know, it seems to me that its like climbing a wall, the bigger the wall, the higher you've climbed when you manage it.
I think we need to go easy on ourselves.
There is no concrete aim, in meditation.
Meditation IS the aim, and training and calming the 'Monkey Mind' an objective along the way.
Don't be too hard on yourself...
Sometimes when certain obstructive thoughts arise, instead of resenting them, and fearing what they bring, a possible way to tackle them, is to meet them head on, welcome them, and embrace them....
"Hello <*name of feeling/emotion here*>, you're back again.... tell me, what can I do for you today? What are you bringing me to observe....?"
Then, do just that.
Observe.
Don't linger, don't define, don't analyse..... just 'watch'......
And smile.
Thank you for the all round encouragement! I think I'm gonna like it here.
I asked because I, too, have, for many years, experienced something which may be similar.
The first time was in 1967 and I wrote then: "I was falling, uncontrolled, into an endless well into which I shouted and which shouted back at me." Over time, the experience has come back and is similar to the experience of shock when (in my case, for example) hearing terrible news - a freezing and a sudden change in the (subjective) quality of sound and light alongside disturbance in my vestibular sense.
Glad (or maybe not) that I'm not alone at least.
Welcome to the board. A friend of mine has also had similar experiences whilst doing meditation on the breath. She switches to metta and that seems to help, as it gives her an alternative (neutral) object within meditation.
Whether this is a long term solution, I don't know? I think meditation can highlight the limit to which we control certain aspects of our mental functioning, or not as the case may be.
Namaste
Kris
Your anxiety is likely compounded now that you are expecting the panic and so you sort of feed it with your expectations. I would meditate in very short sessions-- just as long as you can before the panic arises, then get up, move around, have a cuppa and try again. Keep in mind that emotional states are like the weather in the sky of your mind... treat this feeling like it is a big storm cloud rolling in and just marvel at its power knowing that it will pass just as soon as it came. No big deal.
By all means go easy on yourself and be a good friend to yourself. Treat your mind like you would any friend that was going through the same thing. You made a very wise observation about this likely being the mental background noise of your daily life. That being so, think of how much relaxation and contentment you can extend through your whole day if you can maintain poise and a loving mind in the face of anxiety during the meditation session!
When you perform the Four Immeasuables, be sure to start out with extending these feelings of goodwill to yourself first. You must be compassionate and loving with your own mind, as if it is a small child that needs your support. This is something we all must learn before we can really grow strong enough to nurture others.
I wish you all the best and great success in your efforts. Please lean on us grizzled meditators here to answer your questions but you may want to seek out an accomplished teacher in whatever tradition appeals to you. Their presence can often dispel these mental states and they may be able to help you grapple with whatever problems arise with additional meditations.
Rest assured that many, many of us have had the full gamut of mental and emotional problems arise during the course of our meditation careers and by persistent effort and a compassionate acceptance of our foibles have made progress.
Good luck!
Namgyal
I think I'll do both for a while since as I said before, I think confronting the harshness in my meditation is a good thing and something to become detached but intimate with and get an understanding of its nature, but I really can't think of why I wouldn't want to propagate and work with the four immeasuables as well.
As for it being like the minds weather, I've been trying to focus and keep in mind imperminence as a way of keeping myself going through it. I do finally freak out at some point, but it kind of feels like I'm walking through a thick swamp and the further I get every time I try to cross it the stronger and better at it I get and at some point I'll find the other side.
Thank you both very much for your kind words and support, you can expect to see more of me here
However, according to my Mother, I was 'made' in Italy.... :rolleyes:
I guess she should know..!!
Nice to know you'll stick around. I'm sure we shall benefit a great deal from your input and insight!
Thanks!
What's happening is that your mind has associated a physical cue with a mental state, in your case a pretty negative one. Doesn't mean you're crazy or anything like that. With time the association will pass.
Can I suggest that you consider purchasing the following book cheaply from Amazon or elsewhere? Its called 'Taming the Tiger' . It is by Akong Tulku Rinpoche who's an accomplished meditation master and doctor of Tibetan medicine who has a great deal of understanding about westerners and various difficulties encountered in meditation.
The second half of the book explains some very gentle exercises and meditations which can be practiced. I think you'd find it very helpful.
More details may be found here:
http://www.wisdom-books.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=5992
Kind wishes,
Dazzle
Haha Same here!
Hahaha, very good!
Thanks Jinzang!
Thanks for the reccomendation, Dazzle! I'll be looking into that now!
I have a panic disorder too, as do a number of other members on here, so you're definitely not alone.
I think the advice everyone has given you is wonderful and there's a lot there to work with. I'd just like to echo Namgyal's suggestion that you bring this to a teacher. Do you have a meditation teacher in your tradition? If not, try to find one because a practiced meditation teacher would know how to help you.
I also wanted to point out that I'm very glad you found Buddhism because I'm completely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Buddhism is the right cure for precisely what you're experiencing. There will be work and it won't be pretty or pleasant but it will yield the best results. You're already taking the Buddha's medicine which means you're halfway there so keep taking it. Patient endurance will be your best friend.
Again, welcome to the board. We're very happy to have you!
Thanks for the welcome
Its a nice change to be on a board thats full of A: very very nice and B: very very thoughtful people. I know I should have expected that, an I kinda did, but I'm not used to it yet! lol
Everyone who comes through the door gets a complimentary comforter-wrap-shawl, their own mug and a special place at the table....
And a huge bean-bag or rocking chair!
If you take a look in the Lotus lounge, you'll come across a thread I began titled "What does our house look like?" We had a lot of contributions, and I think you'll like it here.
Palzang
In Zen practice, fear is witnessed just as it is.
And, of course, the witnessing changes the fear. Observer and observed, in the end, reveal themselves as one.
Well, sure, that's the ideal, but if the fear gets to a certain point, you're reacting to it instead of seeing it as it is. The question then is what is a proper reaction. There's no single answer, but the idea is to allow yourself to continue with meditation practice in spite of the fear.
I'm afraid I can't remember if I've welcomed you to the board. There have been a number of new members lately and I'm sure I've missed some somewhere along the line. So welcome, welcome, welcome!
And I'd definitely have a look at that thread Fede recommended called "What does our house look like?" 'cuz it's fun!
Don't worry too much about finding a tradition to follow. It took me two years to figure it out. You'll find it when the time is right.
If you decide you want to talk to an experienced meditation teacher like a member of the monastic community or something, remember to do your homework and research, research, research. Like all spiritual traditions, Buddhism has its share of false teachers so you have to stay on your toes before trusting anyone. (You can always run the name of any teacher by us to see if we have any info that can help you.) It can be very tempting to trust people who call themselves Buddhist teachers so don't let your guard down until the teacher has proven themselves to be the real thing to your complete satisfaction.
It's just occurred to me that you might give Pema Chodron's books a try. She's written some very useful stuff on fear and she's a wonderful teacher.
This is not my experience. _/\_
It has been mine. _/\_
I am also a newbie here. Welcome, nice to meet you.
What immediately struck me is the fact you're bipolar without meds. I had a reactive bipolar experience in 2002 and spent a good few years trying to forget it.
I wanted to ask if you've had any therapy because some would have it that bipolar disorder can partly be a case of covering up certain emotions. In my particular case it was, in yours it might not be, but I'd feel bad not mentioning it, in case it could help you, at least in part. You can PM me if you want to discuss this further.
Sorry to go off the meditation topic, but it struck a chord and I would hope you had the best support possible that's all!!
Someone shared a wonderful tip with me concerning panic disorder: Imagine a whirlwind going on around you, and you at it's heart, peaceful, letting it rage and whirl while you stay absolutely still. The centre of a whirlwind is calm. I found this really helpful.
Also you can download Dr. Elizabeth Weekes' .mp3 talks on panic disorder for free off the internet. She was the Australian world expert on panic and nervous disorders until her death and won the nobel pize for her contribution to medicine for it. As an ex-sufferer she really knew what sufferers go through too!
Yes, Dr. Claire Weekes
Here you go: http://www.controllinganxiety.com/dsp_downloads.php
These freedownloads were recommended to me by someone on another buddhist forum and I feel very indebted to them.
They are excellent and I can hear her soothing accent whenever I get a bit jumpy.
Enjoy !!
As an update, its getting harder, the anxiety comes on faster, has started following me out of the meditation (not for long but long enough to bother me) and its making practice really hard work. I really wish things would get a little easier.
Palzang
The only thing keeping me going is the idea that because its so hard, the work I'm doing will lead to a bigger "pay off" once I get through it. But at the moment its all baby steps since I can't seem to get twenty minutes in without having to stop.
"When you practice, you should be as a guitar string: neither too taut, giving strident tones, nor too slack, giving dull un-tuneful notes, but just right, to harmonise sweetly with the other strings, to give agreeable melodies."
or something like that.
I lose myself and get poetic at times. :rolleyes:
Everything in moderation.
Including moderation.
Please don't be too hard on yourself.
it could be that as you sit, subconsciously you say to yourself: "Now, I must meditate properly, not lose concentration, just do it and focus....."
Which is self-defeating....
Try to vary the time, the duration, the place and the method....
meditation is never meant to be unpleasant, an ordeal we absolutely HAVE to sit through, come what may.
Meditation is something growing with me, but I'm sure I don't do it enough. I'm sure that some would admonish me for being lax in my practice, and not being Mindful.
They'd in all probability be right.... But it's up to me. I'm the one who has to 'sit' and I'm not going to chew my own head off about it.
I'll increase as best I can, and do what I must do - but in the end, it's putting one foot infront of the other that counts. And iff we pitter-patter instead of stomp, then, so what?
let each do his own best in his own way....
By the way, this nmachine.....
Could you adapt a tennis ball launcher?
You know, the kind people use to return serves....
That would smack you one....
Market it.
I'll have one....
My thinking is that the more I go "there" and just hold on for a little while longer than I feel like, It's bound to be a good thing.
*fingers crossed anyway*
Though I do think I may have tried a bit too hard today, the bad vibes have been following me since then.
And on the other subject lol
You've actually got me thinking about building something!
P.s I did some more googling on this topic and this thread is now on the first page of search results! So if anybody else gets this problem and searches for it, all your advice will be there for them to find!
I just thought that was a nice thought I should share. Yay for you lot!
Anyway, back to what I was saying, Adam, my teacher has told her students that it important to clear away any obstacles like the one you are experiencing before you can really do any effective practice. That is the point I was trying to make. I don't think the answer here is to keep practicing and hope that you will break through the obstacle or that it'll somehow go away. You need to get in there and root it out. It's obviously preventing you from practicing as fully as you would like. For her students, she recommended the 12 step program, which doesn't necessarily mean AA or NA or whatever. It is possible to do the 12 steps without going to formal meetings. Or perhaps find a counselor to help you through it. The point is that until you address whatever is going on, it's going to be an obstacle, and it will most likely only get worse until you stop meditating altogether out of frustration. And it doesn't mean that you're a "bad practitioner" because you have an obstacle. Rather the opposite. Buddhism is about change, and sometimes we have to make big changes before we can really get into it. That's a good thing.
Palzang
Hi Palzang,
Just wanted to say, I love that signature. How very true is that.
Namaste
Kris
Palzang
I think I got your point, but my situation is that I've spent (on and off) the last 14 years trying to do something about this. I've seen various professionals who, while obviously skilled, couldn't really see any real problem or trigger (no criticism of them, I can't see one either), and ended up putting me on meds that once ended up with me reacting bad enough to have to be rushed to hospital, so I like a clear head these days. In a way I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and honestly the only thing that ever really seemed to help was meditation. The idea of me having to wait till this seemingly insurmountable obstacle is removed, is a bit disheartening.
Palzang
Palzang
Thanks man! I really am very grateful!
On thing I should make known, is that I am gaining a certain amount of insight while this is going on. Its not insight in the sense of "I just had an idea!" It's more like gaining an intuative understanding of something that was formerly theoretical, In this case, of death.
Are we talking for fixing some karma? Or just a distraction? Or both.
Either way, good idea! I do have a lot of free time I'll start looking into this!
All your help here is very much valued, I now integrate metta practice (Which i didnt know about) as well, just so people know I've taken things on board (Its important to me to make sure people know when they've been a great help
Palzang
I shall crack on, and let you know how it goes!
Thanks again!
I think Palzangs advice is spot on. As a retired mental health consultant I think that one wants to avoid being too self-referential. So helping others dilutes self focus and changes self view. After all think of all the lonely people who you can bring a ray of hope to.
grackle