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Cooking the Books: Anyone seen this already...?
federica
Seeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
...Or am I dishing up yesterday's cold left-overs?
Thought it might be of interest...
I've not read it all, and personally, it does not affect my practice.
but I thought I'd share the cake......
Thought it might be of interest...
I've not read it all, and personally, it does not affect my practice.
but I thought I'd share the cake......
0
Comments
As I was reading it, I wondered whether the conclusions (or lack of them) were actually of importance. Does the date of the Shakyamuni Buddha's death matter?
At the level you mention, Fede, the level of personal practice, it may have no real impact. this does, however, not invalidate the importance of the work for Buddhism as a coherent body of history, legend, myth and practice.
When I was eleven (1954) and becoming fascinated by archaeology and history, a temple of Mithras was discovered and excavated in the City of London. I investigated Mithraic story and cult. At the same time, I was reading a whole lot of Christian stuff, including biblical archaeology. It struck me then, and strikes me now, that the fundamental difference between Mithras and Jesus (and the Shakyamuni Buddha for that matter) is that there is plenty of arcaeological and epigraphical evidence for the historicity of the latter but Mithras is only known via myth.
Over the years, I learned that aspects of the apparent 'history' in the Bible (leaving the first few chapters of Genesis aside) were contradicted by archaeology. Even the date of Jesus' birth was contested - remember the pedantic arguments in 1999? Some people seemed to find these discoveries unsettling, as if the historical existence of someone became questionable if we haven't got a precise date of birth. Louis Armstrong's music and life are entirely real, despite the fact that almost every biography gets his date of birth wrong.
Nevertheless, both Buddhism and Christianity claim rather more than that their founder lived a long time ago. They claim to transmit stories of his life and the actual words spoken by him. If the life stories are wrong in their details, how far can we trust that the words are accurately handed on? In the case of Buddhism, this is of even more importance because of the history of the Councils following the parinibbana as preserving verbatim the actual words spoken by the Tathagata. If the traditional dates are wrong, and if Asoka had a hand in this transmission, what does it change?
This is not the only questionable aspect of the traditional Gotama story. Was his father a 'king'? Where, precisely, was he born? The archaeology is contradictory.
None of these questions changes the fact that there was an historical Gotama or an historical Jesus. The interpretation of their reported life and words that they were Buddha or Christ is made independent of archaeology or epigraphy. To suggest otherwise is to make a serious category error.
Just a point, Siddhartha's father was not really a king. The term doesn't really apply to the systems of government in those days. The states were usually very small, and the leaders were more like tribal chieftains than actual kings. Not that it matters one whit. I would be exceedingly surprised if Siddhartha's life was really much like the stories that we now read, nor Jesus' early life either. Those stories are, as Lama Norbu said in Little Buddha, just one way to tell the truth. They aren't meant to be factual accounts.
Palzang
For the sake of argument I might concede your point, Palzang, but that doesn't mean that nobody has to argue viciously with his brother over all possible ramifications.
Palzang
I should really apologize for venting my recent frustrations here in my own maladept way. I should really have taken my points elsewhere. I have no excuse except that I have neither the time nor the talent to do so.
:eek:
Nirvy
Palzang