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"the fat guy"

buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
edited August 2005 in Buddhism Basics
why the "shying" away from the fat guy? is he not buddha?

what's the deal with that? is there a difference between the chinese buddha and the "other" one?

michael

Comments

  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    Mi Fo LO. The fat guy. He is another Buddha. There are Buddhas living today.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited July 2005
    Like "full-blown" enlightened Buddha's? Like the first Buddha himself?

    Are they Buddha's because they're self-proclaimed Buddha's? Is there no way to know except to take their word for it?

    Michael
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    From what I hear yes.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2005
    Everyone's Buddha..... It's just that we're all wearing so many overcoats, even we don't realise it... you just need to strip all the crap away (and BTW.... it's all crap) and stand there in your glory.... all the delusion, the illusion, the opinions, prejudices, the "need to be right" the need to 'control' the need to criticise, to judge, to hate to be repulsed by to disown to refuse.... get all of these and more, out of the way and Voilà!! Hey presto! Buddha! Simple!! (NB: 'Simple' doesn't mean 'easy'.....) ;)
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    SEE!!! I heard right. LOL :bigclap:
  • BrianBrian Detroit, MI Moderator
    edited July 2005
    The "fat guy" is unfortunately the most commercially "marketable" buddha image that most people who know very little about buddhism seem to attribute buddhism too. When people find out that I'm a buddhist they almost always assume that I worship a fat guy, or make jokes about being fat, etc.

    A 16 year old kid who knows I am a buddhist came up to me the other day and told me a joke- "Jesus and buddha were walking along. Jesus said "can I wash your feet?" and buddha said "I have feet?"

    I didn't get it - honestly! Then he explained the punchline, "you know, buddha is so fat he didn't see his feet" and I had to explain to him that siddartha was actually a skinny ass indian dude! :lol:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2005
    Most of my statues and images are of the Indian Buddha (stick with the original, that's my motto....!)
    But I have two fat guy models: one is about two inches high in cast bronze and he nestles in the palm of the hand wonderfully... I was given it by a fellow Shiatsu student many years ago, and I rub his belly with my thumb "for good luck".... ;)
    The other is a porcelain figurine about 8" high... my elder brother gave it to me as a thank you for being there when his life hit the skids for a while....Hey, what are sisters for....?
    In the main, my Buddhas are Indian, and they look so calm, serene and composed.
    I saw a really lovely one in a garden once... carved in relief, and painted onto a wall, with an oval mirror where the face should have been.... and if you looked at it head on, guess whose face you saw? :)
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    The fat guy is my favorite. Mi Fo Lo just looks cool. :)
  • SabineSabine Veteran
    edited July 2005
    What we learned in world history class is that the "fat" :D Buddha represented the Buddha that has the true happiness, nirvana. The opposite of the original Siddhartha Guatama--before he found the Middle Way. Ya know? :o
    Also, I read something about the depiction of Buddha being dependant on the region. As in, Tibet has a type of Buddha, China has a type of Buddha, Japan has a type of Buddha, etc.
    Last year, one of my friends gave me a little Buddha--yes, a fat one :D --that she bought on a trip, and we called him "raise da roof" Buddha. He has his arms up, as if celebrating/dancing :bigclap: (Lame, I know. But what else can you talk about in Geometry?)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited July 2005
    Buddhist iconography is a vast subject.

    In the earliest centuries after the Buddha Shakyamuni's perinibbana, there were no images at all. Sometime a wheel, an empty throne, a bodhi tree, an umbrella, or a pair of footprints were used as symbols to represent the Buddha. I have often suggested this approach for those people who come to Buddhism from 'iconoclastic' religious traditions such as extreme protestantism or the Religious Society of Friends: no need for idols.

    The earliest human images were produced in the Gandaran region (now in Pakistan) around the turn of the era, some 500 years after Gotama. These are the peaceful, Hellenic Buddhas with a little top-knot on their heads. The top-knot itself is interesting because it is a symbol, in Greek art, of the god Phoebus Apollo. The little curls are sometimes connected to an old legend that, while Gotama sat in meditation under the bodhi tree, snails gathered on his shaven head to keep him warm, just as, in the First Turning of the Wheel, in the Deer Park at Sarnath, a king cobra reared up and spread his cowl over the Tathagata to keep him from getting soaked in the rain.

    Each culture has adapted Buddha images, although there are some iconographic norms which are almost always respected. Symbols are extremely important in Buddhism. The Buddha Shakyamuni is most often portrayed seated, with his bowl held in one hand. The other executes one of the mudras: touching the earth or the teaching mudra.

    The little, pot-bellied 'buddhas' are mainly from the Chinese tradition and are often named after the mythic sage Hotei. China has a long tradition of what we might call 'superstition' so that small buddha figures are used as lucky charms: rubbing the belly or touching the long earlobes (a sign of spiritual prowess) is assumed to bring luck and prosperity.

    I have a little hotei, somewhat similar to this:
    hotei9qh.jpg

    In his hands, however (and I couldn't find one after a quick net search), he is holding two small spheres. He stands under a plaque based on Jung's doorpost motto: "Bidden or Unbidden, God is Here". But the statue is known, in my house, by a variation on the Nixon motto: "Enlightened, we laugh because we've got the world by the balls".

    Do we worship the fat man? the thin man? the multicoloured Taras? Definitely not. We do not worship, although we may revere.
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited July 2005
    He is Maitreya Bodhisattva. The fat guy version originated from China and there was a story behind it. The Chinese like round(fat) as it symbolise fullness/totality/completeness. He is fat because he is able to digest all ignorant and unwelcome/unpleasant critizisims and still maintain his perfect joy and happiness. The original image of Maitreya Bodhisattva in Gandaran is very much different - slim and indian like.

    According to Buddhist scripture. It is said that Maitreya Bodhisattva will appear on planet earth and attain Buddhahood in about 5.6 billion years from now. It is believed that He is a Bodhisattva, not yet a Buddha. :)

    Cheers,
  • comicallyinsanecomicallyinsane Veteran
    edited July 2005
    I thought he was named Mi Fo Lo.
  • LittleBenBuddhaLittleBenBuddha
    edited July 2005
    :lol:
    A 16 year old kid who knows I am a buddhist came up to me the other day and told me a joke- "Jesus and buddha were walking along. Jesus said "can I wash your feet?" and buddha said "I have feet?"
    I love this joke... :lol: Humor is vital to enlightment IMO. Maybe I'll start a thread on the subject.
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited July 2005
    comicallyinsane wrote:
    I thought he was named Mi Fo Lo.

    Mi Lo Fo (Laughing Buddha) is the chinese name for it. They are the same. :)

    I think this looks very much like the one from Gandara.
    http://www.templeofthepresence.org/images/maitreya2.jpg

    While searching thru' the web I found interesting materials at http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/Maitreya.htm
  • MadeleineMadeleine
    edited July 2005
    federica wrote:
    Everyone's Buddha..... It's just that we're all wearing so many overcoats, even we don't realise it... you just need to strip all the crap away (and BTW.... it's all crap) and stand there in your glory.... all the delusion, the illusion, the opinions, prejudices, the "need to be right" the need to 'control' the need to criticise, to judge, to hate to be repulsed by to disown to refuse.... get all of these and more, out of the way and Voilà!! Hey presto! Buddha! Simple!! (NB: 'Simple' doesn't mean 'easy'.....) ;)



    Hey suddenly it makes sence... Never thought of it in that way... :D
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited August 2005
    I think the fat Buddha was real... I read somewhere that after his asectic(hope the spelling is right) life, he was nearly bones. Then he started to eat loads, not to the extent of gorging himself till he was damm fat, but enough for him to feel more than full. Hell, he was the Fourth Great Buddha, people wanted to feed him. That's how he got his fats about.

    Ever seen the Chinese drawings of Matreiya, the Next Buddha? He's depicted as damm fat and laughing. That's why he's called the Laughing Buddha. But who knows? We still have got 2500 years to wait till he comes... That's not before Buddhism is lost, as Gautama Buddha predicted.
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited August 2005
    By the way, kinlee, wheredid you get the billions of years from? I thought that it was 5000 years after the Gautama Buddha's death?
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited August 2005
    ajani_mgo wrote:
    By the way, kinlee, wheredid you get the billions of years from? I thought that it was 5000 years after the Gautama Buddha's death?

    hmm...
    5000 years mentioned may not be our earth worldly measurement. It is the measurement of the heaven where Maiteya Buddha is now practising. An equivalent of 5.6 billions in our world. I heard it from a venerable anyway thanks for the query. I will make certain for myself about the 5000 years.

    cheers,
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited August 2005
    ajani_mgo wrote:
    I think the fat Buddha was real... I read somewhere that after his asectic(hope the spelling is right) life, he was nearly bones. Then he started to eat loads, not to the extent of gorging himself till he was damm fat, but enough for him to feel more than full. Hell, he was the Fourth Great Buddha, people wanted to feed him. That's how he got his fats about.

    Ever seen the Chinese drawings of Matreiya, the Next Buddha? He's depicted as damm fat and laughing. That's why he's called the Laughing Buddha. But who knows? We still have got 2500 years to wait till he comes... That's not before Buddhism is lost, as Gautama Buddha predicted.

    Well my understanding is that Buddhism like any other religion will reach it's peak and deteriorate to it's lowest level. 2500 years may be too short a time. According to some, Buddhism existance in the world will last until the next 9000 years. And there will be a long time where earthlings won't be able to know much about Buddhism. All Buddhist text scriptures will be destroyed.
    According to Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva Sutra, Buddha had assigned Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva to take over Buddha's role until Maitreya Buddha appears. Off course this is implicit. :)
    cheers,
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited August 2005
    I knew that the original arrival of the Next Buddha was in fact longer than the real one the Buddha had predicted. Howver, when he ordained the first nun, he cut it by half. Could it be that there was something in the nuns that would cause Buddhism to die faster?

    From what I know Maitreya will come during a preiod of prosperity, and that all humans live ten of thousands of years, so unless medical science improves like hell in the next millenium, we have no chance of anything in the next 2500 years.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited August 2005
    Pick your own mythology. Turning the Tathagata into a fortune-teller adds nothing, for me, to the Dharma.
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited August 2005
    It plays a little part here in practice. it will tell us if we are going to lose Buddhism for long, maybe we will just lose it tomorrow.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited August 2005
    I regret that, to me, Ajani, it is superstitious gloss added by the priests to strengthen their hold over people.
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited August 2005
    I thought the Buddha himself did say that. I can't recall the exact sutra for it, but I think he had the chat with Ananda if I'm not wrong.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited August 2005
    uhhhhhhhhhhh....


    :wtf:


    Right about now - I'm sorry I ever asked this question. I'm completely lost.

    -bf
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited August 2005
    Nah, it's alright... We won't be here here when the Next Buddha comes, I guess. We will either be saints or we will just be humans that are non-Buddhists, where we wait for the arrival of the Fifth to bring Buddhism back to the Earth again.
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited August 2005
    buddhafoot wrote:
    uhhhhhhhhhhh....


    :wtf:


    Right about now - I'm sorry I ever asked this question. I'm completely lost.

    -bf

    That's very normal and perfectly understandable.
  • kinleekinlee Veteran
    edited August 2005
    The coming Buddha Maitreya is an integral part of Buddhist community and culture, especially in the East. I can fully understand about the challenges to comprehend much about Maitreya, especially the west.
    I believe details about Maitreya, and others like Avalokiteshvara and Ksitigarbharaja, were recorded in suttras. Personally I had a very enriching and valuable experience understanding Ksitigarbharaja suttra.
    What I personally know about Maitreya is actually by words of mouth from reliable sources. Off course, they can only act as references, which may or may not be true. If there is an affinity with Maitreya, the only way to justify is to research from genuine Buddhist suttra. Else, I suggest to focus on what is more relevant/important and comfortable to one's Buddhist cultivation.

    cheers,
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