reincarnation

Bradv93

Hey guys!
I was just wondering, if Buddhist don't believe in souls, then what is it that is reborn into the world?
Thanks!
-Brad

DhammaDhatu

Hi Brad

In Buddhism, there are two levels of teaching. The mundane called lokiya dhamma and the supramundane called lokuttara dhamma. Lokiya means 'of the world' whereas lokuttara means 'beyond or above the world'.

The mundane is based in morality or merit and teachings about rebirth & reincarnation fall into this category.

The supramundane is based in liberation from suffering and the teachings such as the Four Noble Truths, impermanence, emptiness and not-self fall into this category.

However, over the centuries, the two levels of teaching have become more and more inter-mingled to the point where supramundane doctrines such as Dependent Origination have become mundane. Or today, more and more intellectuals created more and more theories about the relationship between rebirth and emptiness. However, the Buddha did not teach like this. The Buddha kept the two levels of dhamma distinctly separate.

Of these two levels of dhamma, the Buddha said:

And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents [asava], siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right view, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

And what is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit & results in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & other worlds. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously born beings; there are priests & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the other worlds after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit & results in acquisitions.

And what is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The wisdom, the faculty of wisdom, the strength of wisdom, analysis of phenomena as a factor for Enlightenment, the path factor of right view of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is free from effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

MN 117

The two levels of teaching or two kinds of language is also found in Christianity. For example, in the Gospel of John is found:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

In Buddhism, many words are translated as 'rebirth'. Less commonly, the literal word 'rebirth' was spoken by the Buddha. More commonly, the Buddha used the word 'reappearance'.

So what is it that reappears? Usually, our unenlightened ignorance that leads our mind into disturbance and not have permanent peace & understanding.

Kind regards

DDhatu

federica

Thanks DD. Great post.

So, Brad, in short, it is (as DD puts it) the 'Reappearance of 'Suffering consciousness'....
Not you, not a duplicate of you, nothing truly, emphatically and definably recognisable as 'you'.....

I am taken with the lesson of the candles....

Take a Candle.
Light it.
Now take a second candle.
Light it from the first.
Blow the first candle out.
This 'second' flame....
Is it the same as the first, or different?

:rolleyes: *thinks*.....

Bradv93

Thanks guys! So, it is our ingnorance that is reborn...is that why a buddha--without ignorance--cannot, or is not, reborn into the samsaric world

Palzang

Yeah, basically. My teacher says it is the habit of taking rebirth that causes rebirth. Break the habit, and hey, you're off the wheel! Hmm, I wonder if they make patches...

Palzang

federica

Bradv93 wrote: »

Thanks guys! So, it is our ingnorance that is reborn...is that why a buddha--without ignorance--cannot, or is not, reborn into the samsaric world

Actually, they can....

Bear in mind that if a Buddha feels he would like to remain/be re-born, in order to help those beings in Samsara shed their attachments and gain realisation, he/she can. A Bodhisattva (Mahayana) or Arahant (Theravada) is such a being.....

Bradv93

Cool! Thanks...