Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Life Taken By Vegetarians
comicallyinsane
Veteran
This is not aimed at vegetarians who only eat non chemical veggies that are hand picked.
I was tlaking to a Buddhist friend of mine today and we got into the discussion of eating meat. He made a very good point of all the vegetarians who eat vegetables made from the big companies. They use these big plows that dig up the ground. He pointed out the fact that millions of beings are killed when this happens. Millions of insects and animals that live underground are swept away by these machines.
He said that killing one cow to feed a family for a month is better than eating vegetables form the store that killed thousands or even millions of insects to harvest. What do you all think?
I was tlaking to a Buddhist friend of mine today and we got into the discussion of eating meat. He made a very good point of all the vegetarians who eat vegetables made from the big companies. They use these big plows that dig up the ground. He pointed out the fact that millions of beings are killed when this happens. Millions of insects and animals that live underground are swept away by these machines.
He said that killing one cow to feed a family for a month is better than eating vegetables form the store that killed thousands or even millions of insects to harvest. What do you all think?
0
Comments
In my humble opinion, that is...
Do we intend these things? Do we act intentionally to cause the suffering of the paramecium? Do we revel in the pain we cause the ant we just unknowingly crushed?
I wonder whether you are astounded by the profusion of life that surrounds us and, awe-struck by this, you understand the sacredness. Within that vision, the very thought of taking or causing to be taken away any part of that life seems sacrilege.
You may wish to consider this: nothing is lost in this universe. As far as we can understand, it is a closed system within which all elements, constructed from a multitude of a few fundamental particles, do not disappear but change their nature. In Buddhist thought, each individual mind is, itself, a construct which reposes on its own fundamental 'particles' which are called Clear View and other names. This, just like than physical/energy particles, simply arises in different forms over and over again.
In an earlier thread, I asked you about Life and what that means to you. If I read you correctly, you situate Life at a very basic level, as an animating principle. At that level, I would suggest, Life cannot be 'taken' or destroyed; it can only change how it manifests.
Thus, life feeds life because life can only arise from itself.
No, I am not going to start eating meat! Biting into a piece of animal flesh grosses me out more than you could ever imagine! YUCK!
We are talking about the taking of life here not the fact of eating meat or veggies. That is the point I am making.
I do eat organic fruits and veggies, yes, but I buy those products from a natural food store, so I have no idea how many bugs those farmers kill with their machines. The only veggies that I eat that I know insects are not killed in the process of picking them are the ones I get from my own backyard!
I am just trying to point out a different point of view. I have had to spend all my life eating meat. I don't really know any other diet. I can eat breads but they cause me to gain too much weight. I have had people tell me how bad I eat but the thing is I have always had to be very mindful of my diet. I also noticed most average people only eat vegetables when they are on their hamburgers.
Quinoa can provide you with all the amino acids you'll ever need.
I think I have gone off track. Oops.
"Quinoa, pronounced keen-wah, is not a true cereal grain, but rather the botanical fruit of an herb plant. It is treated as a grain in cooking. The grains are small yellow flattened spheres, approximately 1.5 to 2 mm in diameter. When cooked, the germ coils into a small "tail" that lends a pleasant crunch. The leaves of the quinoa plant can also be eaten. "
We eat it all the time in our house - it is really good. And super easy to make.
A human, on the average eats about 10 to 15 spiders in their lifetime.
Ever wake up with those bug bites from leaving the windows open in the summer. Creepy crawlys lurking all over the place? Lookind for some place warm to hide? Then something ticklers your fancy and CHOMP - you never know what you did and they never knew what hit them.
Or what about the bugs you accidentally inhale and digest? Or the gnats you accidentally snort up your nose?
What about all of those!?!?!?!?!
Michael
I've read articles like this before. Don't forget the amount of skin and rodent hair that is also allowed in many, many foods. I think chocolate is allowed so many hairs, so many larvae, wings, etc. in each 8 ounces of chocolate.
So, if you're eating chocolate - it's not as "non-meat" as you may think.
I also read the story of a woman who was drinking a bottle of V8 one time in her car while her husband was driving. One of those 12 or 16 oz bottles with the wide mouth on it. Anyway, she swallowed something hard - and it bugged her enough that she hurled it back up in the car. They went to have it checked out and the report that came back was that the "lump" was the "hair, skin and muscle of an unknown animal".
Yum. I still have a hard time drinking V8 nowadays...
Michael
Here are three little mottoes which I try to live by, with respect to what I eat.
If it's got a soul, it's not in my bowl!
If it can feel, it's not a meal!
Can it feel pain? Then I'll abstain!
Of course, there is the whole bug and plow issue, which I admit I never even considered before. But how many bugs, exactly, are creamed per vegetable item? How many bugs get chopped to bits for one stalk of broccoli? I'd guess at most, maybe three or four. Worms don't count because they just regenerate (unless they get really mashed up). I think somehow that three or four bugs, compared to a whole cow let's say, is somehow qualitatively different. They're all sentient, all have a life force and desire not to be cruched up by machines or eaten up and will move to avoid painful experiences, but the brain of the cow is so much more complex I think it's awareness must be also. Plus, overall, more people can eat if less meat is produced for consumption, and to produce meat first you have to have grain anyway, which has to be planted, which brings us right back to the holocaust of bugs. So then the bugs die AND the cow dies too, and less people are fed and more go hungry.
What if we can be reborn or reincarnated as anything? Like a cow, or a bug. Even the Dali Lama refrains from killing mosquitoes that attack him. He doesn't kill them - he tries to shoo them away or lets them feed.
So is it okay to kill bugs or harm worms just because the regenerate? I could live on crab them - just eat one claw at a time ... but that doesn't make sense because we're still harming them.
Michael
This is, of course, the vital question! Closely followed, I hope, by the question of how much.
All the questions about what we eat distract, sometimes, from the much deeper question of the quantity that we eat. Our Western diets are far and away beyond the daily needs for optimal functioning.
One of the aspects of the practice of the Noble Eighfold Path and enshrined in the Precepts is that of moderation and awareness. So many of our meals are taken "on the run", with no focused awareness.
On a number of retreats, I have been invited to practise aware eating. Two things always result: meals take fa-a-a-a-r longer and we eat significantly less!
Added to which, I notice that the question itself, about killing/meat-eating, causes confusion. It takes us into areas that become more and more rarified and abstract. Whilst I love a good "sheer shit" discussion nearly as much as I love Maltesers, neither clarifies my view very much. But is it skillful and useful on the Path?
Plus, I can't use my fun little sayings!
So, plants really feel some kind of pain? I figured they might. How rudimentary is the nervous system? In studying botany as an undergrad I don't ever remember reading about that; very interesting stuff. Are they aware of their pain? One of the things about animals is that they are conscious of their experience of pain, they can anticipate pain, they seek to avoid pain. Is there evidence to suggest thatthis is the case with our friends the plants also?
J
It takes at least 20 minutes for your brain to tell your stomach it is full, so if eat very slowly and chew your food up really well, you end up eating a lot less!
Then what would vegans eat???
I stray away from processed food for me and my family. You just never know what is in that stuff. I can't believe that someone found animals fur and skin in a V8! That is so disgusting. If thaty happened to me, I could never eat again. GROSS!
What could possibly be more useful than complete awareness of the present moment?
We don't know if they are conscious or not. I have read that is you talk to plants they tend to be healthier. Why is that?
like what? You keep missing my point.
Cheesecake. Need I say more?