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mindfulness and vedana/precept of feeling

mr_teamr_tea
edited August 2009 in Buddhism Basics
Hello everyone,

I had a question regarding mindfulness and seeing the things as they really are. When we truly see the phenomenon in terms of pleasant, unpleasant and neutral and are no longer attached to these feelings, I'm just curious how are decisions made.


An example would be: I usually play basketball because it's pleasurable, now if i just saw basketball no longer as pleasurable/not pleasurable/neutral, how would i decide to play or not. I know there is something i'm not getting, because this would be acting like a zombie (which doesn't make any sense) Or is it, once we truly see things as they are, we are no longer attached to pleasure, so I could decide to play basketball knowing its pleasurable but be free of attachment to it. I would know its impermanent and would enjoy it but be unaffected when it is time to stop.

I'm sorry for my ignorance and thank you for your time in advance.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited August 2009
    mr_tea wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    I had a question regarding mindfulness and seeing the things as they really are. When we truly see the phenomenon in terms of pleasant, unpleasant and neutral and are no longer attached to these feelings, I'm just curious how are decisions made.


    An example would be: I usually play basketball because it's pleasurable, now if i just saw basketball no longer as pleasurable/not pleasurable/neutral, how would i decide to play or not. I know there is something i'm not getting, because this would be acting like a zombie (which doesn't make any sense) Or is it, once we truly see things as they are, we are no longer attached to pleasure, so I could decide to play basketball knowing its pleasurable but be free of attachment to it. I would know its impermanent and would enjoy it but be unaffected when it is time to stop.

    I'm sorry for my ignorance and thank you for your time in advance.

    That's it, right there.
    Enjoy it while it lasts, find pleasure, have fun, know it will end (but enjoy it anyway) then let go.
    Move on.

    Welcome to the forum, Mr_tea..... :)
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited August 2009
    Hello mr_tea and welcome,

    I do like a nice cuppa myself! :)

    Enjoyment of basketball is fine so long as we are unattached to it and understand impermanence.

    Kind wishes,

    Dazzle
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited August 2009
    It's possible to act from unselfish motivation. And there are enough problems in the world to keep you very busy. Maybe some of them can be solved by playing basketball, it's not impossible.
  • mr_teamr_tea
    edited August 2009
    Hello again, and thank you for your replies. I was just using basketball as an example lol, I do understand our actions/thoughts should always be wholesome ones, but I was just trying to picture making decisions where unwholesome and wholesome were not as clear cut as say, saving a child from a fire.

    I had another question:

    Back to the subject of percept of feeling, for the pleasant ones, we could enjoy without attachment (as you guys had pointed out) and for the unpleasant/neutral ones we would just be unaffected by aversion as we would just see it as impermanant phenomenon? So we could always be in a state of equaminity?

    Mr_tea
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited August 2009
    I think there is a misconception about feelings, and about how one should try to not have them.

    Feelings are fine.
    Emotions are fine.
    opinions are fine.
    Views are fine.
    reactions are fine (providing they're skilful! :D)

    But when you're done with them, just drop them, because they're impermanent.
    I'm completely certain the Buddha got a bit pissy, irritated, annoyed at times, and probably vented,now and then.
    But it passed.
    he was done with it, once he'd got it out of his system.

    Skilfully, of course. ;)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2009
    mr_tea wrote: »
    Back to the subject of percept of feeling, for the pleasant ones, we could enjoy without attachment (as you guys had pointed out)...Mr_tea
    "Enjoying" pleasant feelings is attachment or delight (nandi) .
    "The origin of suffering, as a noble truth, is this: It is the craving that leads to new becoming, accompanied by enjoyment (nandi) and lust, and enjoying this and that; in other words, craving for sensual desires, craving to be, craving no to be."

    Buddha's First Sermon

    :)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2009
    mr_tea wrote: »
    So we could always be in a state of equaminity?
    Mr Tea

    You are using a sensual rationale in relation to non-sensual matters.

    The purpose of equinimity is to be the foundation of cultivation of deeper spiritual non-sensual happiness.

    Buddha taught there are two kinds of happiness: sensual happiness & non-sensual happiness and non-sensual happiness is superior.

    Non-sensual happiness is the happiness of the meditative absorptions or jhanas. These are 'heavenly' realms of pervasive & exalted bliss.

    One must abandon sensual happiness to attain this kind of spiritual happiness.


    :)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2009
    mr_tea wrote: »
    I had a question regarding mindfulness and seeing the things as they really are. When we truly see the phenomenon in terms of pleasant, unpleasant and neutral and are no longer attached to these feelings, I'm just curious how are decisions made.
    Mr tea

    ordinarily in life, human beings and animals make decisions on the basis of feelings

    however, in the spiritual sphere, decisions are made on the basis of wisdom

    for example, if a human being insults me and the urge arises based on unpleasant feelings to kill that person, clearly my wisdom prevails over the unpleasant feelings and I refrain from killing

    buddha taught one has mindfulness & wisdom at awareness of feelings

    this is so one is guided by wisdom rather than feelings

    this is because being guided by feelings is not always reliable and often deceptive

    :)
  • mr_teamr_tea
    edited August 2009
    Hello Dharma Dutu, I agree with you but, how do you make a decision on such a topic such as basketball on wisdow... that's what i was wondering.... if u dont' go by pleasure/no pleasure... i'm stuck.... your example for killing is very obvious because it deals with a wholesome/unwholesome act. You are feeling your ego touched, so you cling and attack som1. Could you elaborate a little further?
  • kennykenny Explorer
    edited August 2009
    From my own personal view based upon right understanding the decisions we make are either skillful or unskillful when measured up to the law of Kamma. If I see someone playing basketball and think to myself that will be fun I should go play. Then I would view this as an unskillful act. This conclusion is based upon the fact that I chose to go play basketball purely on sensual desires. However, let’s say I see someone on the court by themselves and they appear to be lonely and I make the decision to go play basketball with them to give them some company and hopefully brighten their spirits some. This I would view as a skillful act because my intention was pure in the fact that I was placing this being’s possible needs above my own. It all truly lies on intention. If we had no intention then we were not being mindful and were clearly following habitual behavior and/or sensual desire.
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