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rescuing meat eaters= bad karma??
yuriythebest
Veteran
Right, hypothetical situation, say you are walking minding your own business then you see a burning car wreck, and the people inside are ostensibly meat eaters- won't you, by saving the people inside, in return have caused the deaths of the hundreds/thousands of cows/chickens/fish that they would consume throughout their remaining lifetime? Or lets take this a step further and exaggerate the situation even more, say the people inside are serial killers/nazis/israili war criminals/ jihad extreemists/child molesters/etc - should one follow the general "value all life" rule or should one indeed look at the laws of causality and how rescuing them might bring some good karma to you in the short term but in the long term by rescuing them you might indeed recieve some very bad karma?
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Comments
First of all Im Jewish and an Israeli citizen who lived through some quite horrific things in the current'' intefada/ uprising, so while I get the point you are making I quite object to the following quote
''serial killers/nazis/israili war criminals/ jihad extreemists/child molesters/etc ''
there are people from this board that come from all over the place, and while I dont want to go down a political route - i quite object to my country and its people being so thougtlessly and judgementally lumped in there with serial killers and child molesters !!
there are two sides to the conflict in Israel -both of which have done bad and both of which have suffered as a result and i respectfully ask you to be more sensative and thoughtfull towards the people here when saying things like that !
i apologise for going off topic but it was something i felt I have to say...until you have lived in Israel, through suicide bombs and snipers and poisened water - and watched friends go off to die in the army or in suicide bombs at an age when most other kids in the west are heading off to college such a remark does nothing but cause hurt and insult to those already hurt enough....
Now - to answer your question.. this is my understanding of Karma...
you are not responsible for other peoples Karma... whether a person eats meat or not should have no effect on you... within Buddhism there are many differant beliefs and some Buddhists paths eat meat for various reasons - others are strictly vegetarian...
My understanding is that you should do your best to save the lives of the people immediatly in trouble... after - if you feel it neccesarry you can lecture them on the percieved evils of meat eating otherwise it is not your place to judge but simply to act and follow whichever teachings you follow as you understand them ...
does that make sense ?
Same goes for your serial killers and war criminals.... there are always two sides to a conflict... and rarely do you find only one side to be innocent... both sides do bad and both - always always have a choice over their actions - even when the situation seems to offer no other option...
same goes for the serial killer or the rapist... whatever their nature or impulses they have a choice over their actions and while we may percieve them to be bad - it is not your or our place to judge and to pass judgement but rather let the universe and karma take care of them - does that make sense??
Buddhism teaches tolerance, love, non judgement for all beings and a desire to free all living things from suffering...
if you pass judgement on those people and allow them to die -just because thier ways or actions do not fit your idea of right or wrong, good or bad - in my opinion that makes you as bad as them...
if my country was invaded by say russia or poland, I myself would never fight myself since it's just not worth it and against my principles, but I'd salute anyone willing to blow themselves up or die fighting to drive away the opressors.
'''if my country was invaded by say russia or poland, I myself would never fight myself since it's just not worth it and against my principles, but I'd salute anyone willing to blow themselves up or die fighting to drive away the opressors.'''
Again - you are judging and I object. Have you been to israel ? have you experienced what its like to be an Israeli or an Israeli child? Ive known children that know how to run to bomb shelters and put on gas masks before they can read or even walk properly - yet you casually lable us bad guys and opressors....
Its very easy to say you would not fight - but when it is your childs bus that is being blown up - how can you say how you would react if you have not experienced it for yourself..????
I dont want to turn this into a political discussion. - Im well aware that the Israel / Palastinian conflict raises strong views on both sides...
But you caused and continue to cause with these new remarks - offense and hurt and raised a subject that really had little to do with the point you were making and could have easily been left out...
I will not comment any further on the whole Israel thing except to say again - that you caused offence and hurt by your thoughtless words and some kind of an apology for that at least would have been nice.
I am so sorry I hurt the innoecent israilis who never hurt anybody and are at the vanguard of ethics and morality, o please forgive me! Seriously are you even for real?? you the the one who opposes the view that the israili government is guilty of war crimes. I guess I'll get amnesty international to write you a personal apology letter and give you a new house in a land that may not necessarily be yours... o wait!
I don't have anything against you personally since you probably didn't commit any war crimes, but I find it deeply disturbing and offensive, sickening even that you'd defend the actions of the israili government
If i made similar comments about your country - i can bet youd be straight in there telling me where to go- - yet israel to you is a fair target.
Again - i stress that the bad is on both sides - it takes two to make a war - no side in the conflict is completely innocent - yet like so many others you take a small amount of information and make a whole world out of it - most likely without ever experiencing the situation for yourself...
Though its hard I will try to feel compassion for you - you seem to judge and speak without a thought for those whom you affect by your words...
I find it ironic that in your seemingly passionate stance about the percieved injustices in Israel - you completely miss the point - that with the very words you use you serve not to end the injustices but to perpetuate them...
tell me - do you really think that labling people criminals and opressors and bad guys will end the conflict ? is it a productive way to use your energy ? will it bring justice or peace to people on either side of that war ??
words are powerfull things and you scatter them around like confetti .... there is a place for politics but it is not here... if you care so passionatly for your fellow human beings then I ask you only to consider what effect your words might have on Israelis or jews and to consider us in your thoughts of justice...
I wasnt asking you to apologise for your political views - think what you like - only for the way you expressed them... but to be honest - i really didnt expect anything...
ive come up against people with similar mindsets before ... you care for injustice, you want peace etc but its all so one sided... you care so much for your fellow humans - but only if they are on the right side of whatever cause you have chosen to support...
the rest of us - well - we are all just opressors and bad guys right - and we deserve every hurt and insult....
I genuinly feel sorry for you - if that is really your view on things...
my country is not built on top of another invaded country. my country is the one that historically got occupied
Palestine provoked you into invading them?
I think you have become complacent- just because you live under fear of rockets does not mean those rockets are not justified.
what is the point in your opinion- please give more info
Unfortunately stuff said in these forums will not do much..
I'm sure the israilis will survive my words
I don't think you directly "opressed" anyone, but your general lifestyle and views contribute to oppression, yes, in my opinion
The 1st precept quite clearly states Do no harm.
There is no certainty of what they will be responsible in future, but by leaving them there, you would be responsible, directly, for their deaths if you do not help them.
Right, having gotten that out of the way -
keep this to PMs thank you.
This has gone so far off-topic, it's untrue.
Yuri, start the topic again, by all means, but stick to the relevant, ok?
Thread closed.