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Dealing with violance / rage ?
Namaste,
I have a question about the Buddhist approach to violance and / or rage..
For instance, I have a brother who - whenever he has issues in his life or whenever he is confronted with something he doesnt want to hear or do - anything from how he talks to others to being asked to tidy up after himself , help out round the house etc ( btw - hes 20 ) flies into a rage that often turns violant... and im talking smashing stuff up kind of violance...
I understand why hes like this ( alcholic parents ) and i try to feel compassion for him because I know that firstly his reactions are a result of suffering of some kind and secondly because hes never been disciplined or been taught to deal with his emotions any other way...
but im interested to know - what is the Buddhist stance on violance ? the destructive kind where stuff gets broken or people get hurt ?
Is one supposed to not interfere in any way and let the scene play its self out ? what about when others are involved and people may be physically harmed ? is non violance still the rule ?
how do you deal with some one who gets violant as soon as you even raise the subject ?
at the moment im having to live in the same house as my parents and brother ... if it were me - id have my brother removed from the house until he can control himself....
usually i just avoid my brother all together... i dont speak to him and avoid him as much as possible... but it seems such a waste of energy ..
what is the buddhist view on those who are violant but refuse to listen or consider change ? is avoidance the only tactic ?
sorry to ask so much in one go - i hope you understand what im getting at here
I have a question about the Buddhist approach to violance and / or rage..
For instance, I have a brother who - whenever he has issues in his life or whenever he is confronted with something he doesnt want to hear or do - anything from how he talks to others to being asked to tidy up after himself , help out round the house etc ( btw - hes 20 ) flies into a rage that often turns violant... and im talking smashing stuff up kind of violance...
I understand why hes like this ( alcholic parents ) and i try to feel compassion for him because I know that firstly his reactions are a result of suffering of some kind and secondly because hes never been disciplined or been taught to deal with his emotions any other way...
but im interested to know - what is the Buddhist stance on violance ? the destructive kind where stuff gets broken or people get hurt ?
Is one supposed to not interfere in any way and let the scene play its self out ? what about when others are involved and people may be physically harmed ? is non violance still the rule ?
how do you deal with some one who gets violant as soon as you even raise the subject ?
at the moment im having to live in the same house as my parents and brother ... if it were me - id have my brother removed from the house until he can control himself....
usually i just avoid my brother all together... i dont speak to him and avoid him as much as possible... but it seems such a waste of energy ..
what is the buddhist view on those who are violant but refuse to listen or consider change ? is avoidance the only tactic ?
sorry to ask so much in one go - i hope you understand what im getting at here
0
Comments
We reject it as unwholesome, unskillful and dangerous with regard to kammic consequence....
This is an aggression which enables him to control others. The more violently he reacts, the more people will leave him alone, or avoid confronting him with potentially explosive triggers....
This is the mistake many people make.
His alcoholic parents IS not the reason he is like this.
He is like this because he wants to be.
You are not like this, are you?
He may have conditions in his life which might contribute to his mindset - but his anger and violence are his decision.
The more excuses you make in your mind about somebody's behaviour, the more they are able to abdicate responsibility and lean on it like a crutch. After a while, it becomes a handy mask for everything.
If you have to 'try' to feel compassion for him, then you are not feeling compassion for him.
Compassion is a natural extension of our Wisdom. the two co-exist, and True Compassion cannot exist without insightful wisdom to balance it out....
I think there is much Anger, resentment and confusion in your own mind regarding his behaviour, and you are attempting to suppress these very natural and understandable emotions with what you think you SHOULD be feeling.
But it's not working is it?
So - ? teach him! By example, by silent direction, by SHOWING him what conquering such emotions can do - and how liberating it can be to no longer be fettered by them....
Wanton wilful violence perpetrated in order to purposefully inflict pain, suffering and harm on others, is both unskillful and inappropriate. Violence perpetrated in order to protect someone, when there is no alternative choice placed before you, by the aggressor - in other words, self-defence - is acceptable, if enacted with the right mind-set and motivation.
Violence - physical or verbal - should always, but always - be the very last resort. If it can in all decency be avoided, so much the better.
Sometimes though, a sharp word, or smart thwack can be the only way to break through and divert the issue into more favourable ways...
Given that every instance will be different, it's hard to say.
However, has he ever had a taste of his own medicine?
Alternatively, sometimes the most effective means of countering noise, is with calm silence, and immovable peace.
"Oh dear. This old rage again. Aren't you getting tired of being so angry? It takes a lot of energy, doesn't it?"
Well, what a shame it would be to remove probably one of the most wonderful learning opportunities you could have...
It's not what goes on around us that counts. it's how much we permit it to affect our serenity, calm and joy, that disrupts us....
Whose, yours or his?
Sometimes... it depends whether that avoidance is skilful. That is, what is your motive in avoidance? his peace - or yours?
Not entirely, I would disagree with this last statement, to an extent....
Anger with anger, Violence with violence... it depends what lies at the root.
Violence, I have already referred to...
There is nothing wrong with Anger.
providing you focus your anger at the real issue, and you are able to drop the anger once it has run its course for that instance.
You have to manifest anger from a point of Concentration, compassion and truth.
You have to understand that you are aiming your anger at the cause, not the person.
His anger stems from his ignorance and suffering.
Be angry at the fact that he is operating from a position of Desire and clinging.
Recognise his emptiness and focus on providing help, compassion. loving kindness through Wise example.
But first you have to have forgiveness.
For his parents, and for him.
And breathe.
Deeply.
Slowly.
And find your centre, every time.
Quote:
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''If you have to 'try' to feel compassion for him, then you are not feeling compassion for him.
Compassion is a natural extension of our Wisdom. the two co-exist, and True Compassion cannot exist without insightful wisdom to balance it out....
I think there is much Anger, resentment and confusion in your own mind regarding his behaviour, and you are attempting to suppress these very natural and understandable emotions with what you think you SHOULD be feeling.
But it's not working is it?''
wow - im a little bit spooked... you hit the nail right on the head there....
I guess ive never been one for confrontation of any kind... and my brothers behaviour does make me angry .. mainly because hes the only son and so - in accordance with my mothers culture - has always been favored any way - simply by being born with the ''right '' body parts....
not only that but its always been me whos been the target for my mothers drunken rantings.. and no matter how much i try to be a good daughter - its never good enough - while my brother - who behaves dreadfully and does nothing to help my parents is seen as practically a saint...
in my mind - his behaviour is shallow and unjustified - hes had the best of everything yet he still lashes out at everything... when i look at him i see a shallow spoiled child who cant or wont control himself ... so yes - it does make me mad ...
from studying the teachings of Buddha ive learned not to return anger with anger and to understand that when people lash out its because they are suffering ... and that one should instead feel compassion for those people ... but its really hard to remember or feel that when you have a 6 ft thug threatening to bash your brains in because youve asked him to move his feet while you clean....
I guess i have tried to supress my emotions - because i know too that i also have the propensity for that kind of uncontrolled rage ... when i confront my feelings about my brother i can feel that anger and hurt overwhelming me ...
i know that such a negative emotion cannot bring anything good- not in the immediate sense . so i try to supress it - rather than risk it too getting out of control - or let my brothers behaviour role over me because i dont know what else to do with my feelings ... does that make sense ??
There's a hefty dose of resentment, too.
Which is understandable.
Look, to say your family is dysfunctional may be stating the obvious, but while I normally recommend developing Kindness, and compassion whilst dwelling in the thick of it, there comes a point where you have to turn it round and focus it on yourself, because right now, it's what you need most....
Right now, it's not about kicking him out.
it's about you moving out, and finding a safe haven until you can get yourself on your feet.
it seems to me you're the common denominator.
And whilst you are studying a spiritual path which will eventually lead you into sacred places - they just see a spineless, namby-pamby placid whipping post, who it's really fun to take things out on....
is there anyone - anyone at all - who might be able to help you and put you up for a while?
because this place is toxic, and unhealthy, and is really not the place to cultivate Metta and Karuna - no matter how much you may want to.
Channah, dear fellow pilgrim,
Listen to Fede! She's got it right.
All I can contribute is a personal story At the age of 16, I left home to escape (I now know) forgotten abuse, a highly critical father, an alcoholic mother and an antagonistic, preferred younger brother. I had 'nowhere' to go and was still at school, in my 'O' Level year, not even a newspaper round. I went to live in a 'squat' in King's Cross. It was not a comfortable experience, nor particularly hygienic! No electricity; no bathroom; an unspeakable mattress on the floor. And, at the same time, freedom to pray and read and study and be myself - even though I now, fifty years later, I see that person as almost a stranger, but a joy-filled one.
After six weeks, I went home again. My parent and brother never changed, but I had. And I just couldn't stand the mess any longer
During those weeks in 1959, I learned lessons that have shaped everything since then - for good and/or ill.
The truth is this: you are in intimate, indissoluble, yet invisible unity and connection with your familyt, your friends, the whole shebang - but the only bit of that unity that you can change is yourself.
May angels walk with you.
Thank you!
People like that....Kinda like myself, are frustrated. Whatever net of circumstances that is cast around us - is always near the surface of our mind. never be afraid of him,
My 'third eye' sees the problem. People like him and I have problems not being in control of our lives and events/people around us, we develop fear (subtle but powerful) and so we try to CONTROL everything in the most basic primitive way...
I'm no expert,
(but I am an "ULTRA BUDDHIST GRANDMASTER Demi-Buddha":p)
what i suggest if he isn't the intellectual type, is to burn him out...some safe way,
get him a punching bag, something, a violent video game, some outlet... or get him to sign up to mixed martial arts, those guys will straighten him out...
or if he's intellectual, teach him somehow, that there are cunning ways to gain control that don't involved primitive behaviour.... for me these ways are much much more satisfying.... for example (hannibal lecter style instead of drunk abusive husband style...i dunno but dr.lecter gets more respect imo)
hmm i dont know where i'm going with this, but I can imagine he needs something to give him control , and that he wants respect as an adult.
(even if he acts childish)
anger looks strong on the outside, but on the inside its weak as hell..
maybe teach him what true strength is..
you make some good points ... in fact all of you have ....
I think the problem comes down to the fact that my brother is the only son... and the whole cultural thing of generally favoring the boy...
from what i can see my brother has no control over himself or his emotions.. he broke up with his girlfriend recently and when he wasnt getting drunk and smashing doors in - he was crying hysterically...
the thing is - i could almost forgive him for much of his behavior on one level... hes never been taught to reign in his emotions - where as i - as the girl in the family have always been taught to be '' the good wife '' to stay silent and carry on regardless - emotional outbursts - of any kind on my part have always been considered utterly unforgiveable - whereas with my brother - any outbursts have always been brushed off as just a guy thing...
the thing is - and this is what really gets me - is that my brother seems to be utterly void of any kind of ethics or consideration for others ... as far as he is concerned - hes the only one in the universe... and others feelings ... their pain or happiness and any part he may play in that - seem to me at least to be insignificant and non existant to him...
the only time ive ever seen my brother show the slightest concern for others is when it directly effects him... when hes lost a friend - or in this case a girlfriend... suddenly he realises how uncool his behaviour is - and for a short time tries to correct it - but its not long before hes back to being the center of the universe again...
does that all make sense...
i guess for me - i find his lack of self control and self awareness utterly abhorant and incomprehensable ... he blames every bad thing that happens to him on everyone else .. and when someone dares to pipe up and suggest that perhaps he has some part to play in his situation ... he gets violant ...
you say not to be afraid of him -- but ive seen all 6ft of his muscle launching its fist at me more than once and its only my martial arts training thats saved me from serious injury
its not my brother im afraid of - its his complete lack of self control when he gets angry .. .and the speed at which he gets angry ...
I try to remember Buddha's ( i think ) teaching and think that any one that lashes out is suffering and i try to feel compassion for him in that way ... but i feel that its hard to deal with his emotions when im struggling with my own ....
im planning to move out with my boyfriend as soon as i have the money - and really the only solution to all this that i can see is to minimise or stop all contact with him...
it seems to me hes determined to be on this destructive path and when i have a family one day i dont think id ever want them exposed to behaviour like his from someone that really should be protecting them or at least looking out for them....
its all such a mess --- sometimes i wish he would just disappear ...
people and/or you brother, can read your actions and body language, what kind of eyes you look at him with etc, and this can subconsciously or consciously
affect him , and worst case he reads those eyes of yours wrong and a whole shit storm can happen..
now i just realized it's really really hard to fix someone if they aren't open minded to change and stuff...
this is where we have to get SKILLFUL and SMART. If you want to give us more data, we can (or pm me, ) help more.
OR if you are sure about just cutting him out, you can do that too, but there will be no profit from that only loss, helping him on the other hand will profit you and the world countless times (butterfly effect)
.....
If he has tried to physically harm you, I'd advise never putting yourself in a position where he gets the opportunity again. There is a risk/benefit analysis here that can't be overlooked. How can you be there for your brother without allowing yourself to be harmed? How can you be there for your brother without exposing your family (when you have one) to his negative influence? A little suffering is unavoidable, but don't throw yourself or others under the bus that is your brother's anger.
But i think, it's better you get hit,
then some ex girlfriend or stranger..
he hits his sister that's fucked up, there should be consquences,
thrown out of house, something like that, a catharsis... a catalyst for change...
or he hits some girl or guy on the street or some place, he might get arrested/stabbed/killed or put in a coma, and his life will be ruined.. there will be no change...
I'm not saying get hit, no one needs to get hit try to avoid that... but don't be afraid of HIM, like don't be afraid of a knife, it's just a piece of metal, it won't hurt you if u don't get cut by it....lol i think i got that saying a bit wrong but you get it right?!
if however I had more data on the subject in question (ur bro) , like lets say he likes to torture small animals and kill them..ummm then we should handle this differently..
but to me he sounds like a big NOOB who needs a role model, a catalyst, or an ass whooping...
It's in no way better for his sister to get hit than it would be for a stranger. In both cases the police should be called and the perpetrator charged. Period.
Having him arrested and charged will not ruin his life. They're not going to toss him into San Quentin and throw away the key. But he will have to deal with the legal system and he will probably and hopefully have to take responsibility for his actions. He may also be convicted of the charge(s) and may be put on probation (if the charges aren't dropped) and be ordered to go to anger management classes. Maybe. Hopefully. (Unless he's been charged and convicted of a violent crime before.)
Allowing him to assault anyone and get away with it does no one any favours, least of all him.
Having learned (the hard way) that we can only change ourselves even if we love another so much we desire nothing more than change them, I can only hope that your brother gets into recovery as soon as possible - and that you, too, find a support group where you can address the inevitable co-dependency that is clear in this situation. As you live in London, there are loads of great resources. Most of them can be found through the Net but we will help you find this support if you ask.
But!! what she can't disagree with is, you should handle this very carefully and skillfully, to the best of your ability or else you will probably regret it.
If your ability isn't enough, increase your ability.
At least then when he comes to the likely 3 conclusions
(jail, suicide/death, bum for life), at least you won't be telling yourself you didn't try hard enough.
Palzang