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Question about Rising sun/Setting Sun

edited September 2009 in Buddhism Basics
Hello!
I am doing a show in which my character is a Buddhist. There is a line where she says, "I ask myself if I am a rising sun or a setting sun." Can someone give me some insight on what exactly she is referring to?. She also claims that the character she is speaking to is a "total eclipse". I felt like that was more of a jab than an actual prediction....?

Any info or direction would be greatly appreciated. Also, how would a Buddhist approach Cancer? Do people believe that they can "detox" someone through meditation/positive thinking? I ask because she also claims that she can clense him/detox.

I realize that these questions may be out of the ordinary, but I haven't a clue about where to start.

Thank you,
Devon

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2009
    Hello mellyn11/Devon....

    Nice to meet you!

    Who wrote the script?
    Ask the scriptwriter to clarify.
    Otherwise it seems very odd....

    Rising sun - optimist
    Setting sun - pessimist....maybe?
    A Buddhist would be neither one nor the other....
    If that is what is intended....

    Meditation is a tool to do many things, but the best description I have read is one that describes it as "Bringing the Mind home".
    It may well have beneficial medical effects but that's not the primary objective, with regards to Buddhism.
    A Buddhist would never claim to 'cleanse' anyone.

    So what show is this, please?
    Could we come and see it? :)
  • edited September 2009
    What show is it -- can you point us to a script? -- and in what context does this line arise? On first blush it might seem that the writer is attributing some sort of highly esoteric statement to this character, to put her "off in left field".




    :eek:!!



    OK, reading further, the whole "de-toxing through meditation" stuff is just New-Age Foo-Foo. If you have any say in this, please discourage this sort of misrepresentation of Buddhism in this endeavor, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with Buddhism and the teachings of the Buddha.

    If you are to portray a New-Age foo-foo type, fine, but please, please, please, do not portray such a character as anything having to do with Buddhism, Buddhists, or the teachings of the man we call "the Buddha."

    You can learn more about Buddhism here if you are curious, and I would encourage you to do so. There is much misunderstanding about Buddhism and the teachings of the Buddha, even among many Buddhists.

    But it seems that to portray Buddhists in the way this show seems to promote from the little bit you have provided here, especially without any kind of understanding of Buddhism and of what these lines you are supposed to say mean, seems almost reckless. To take it to an extreme, it's like asking you to paint on blackface and play Little Black Sambo -- "Yais, Massa, Yais!".

    Please understand that I don't say any of this as any sort of indictment against you personally: It is highly admirable and commendable that you came here and asked first. You have asked our opinions. There is absolutely no sort of notion of "I can de-tox through meditation" in the teachings of the Buddha.


    In short, it appears to me that the author is attempting to put a sort of "Zen statement" (or "Zen-sounding" statement) in the mouth of your assigned character, seemingly without any kind of understanding of Zen, and (from what information you have given here) clearly without any understanding of Buddhism, Buddhists, or the Buddha's teachings.



    If you can provide a link to the script, we could provide a much more thorough and well-considered, and less off-the-cuff, answer.
  • edited September 2009
    Federica,

    Thank you so much for your reply. It is very difficult to find information on this topic, because I think she's simply trying to "sound Buddhist". The character is a 20 year old film student, who went "Buddhist" once her mother passed away from Cancer. My theory is that she leaned toward this belief to aid in her grieving process. So thank you for at least mentioning something I can relate the words to...

    The show is called "Hitchcock Blonde" by Terry Johnson. It is rarely done and the rights are difficult to come by, so I imagine Mr. Johnson will not be answering my questions anytime soon :0)

    If you find yourself in the Hattiesburg, Ms area in early October, you're more than welcome to come!

    * If you dont mind, I would like to print your response for my character research. It's only to site sources.
  • edited September 2009
    FYI on the play, "Hitchcock Blonde":
    Jungle Theater's "Hitchcock Blonde" has erotic tension and a big reveal...but it's still tedious

    <script type="text/javascript">addthis_pub = 'tcdailyplanet';addthis_offset_top = 460;addthis_brand = 'TC Daily Planet';addthis_options = 'aim, aolfav, ask, backflip, ballhype, blinklist, blogmarks, bluedot, buzz, delicious, digg, diigo, facebook, favorites, friendfeed, furl, google, kaboodle, kirtsy, linkedin, live, mixx, multiply, myweb, myspace, netvous, newsvine, propeller, reddit, segnalo, sharedstuff, spurl, stumbleupon, stylehive, tailrank, technorati, thisnext, twitter, yardbarker, yahoobkm';</script>sm-share-en.gif
    Jungle%20Theater%20Hitchcock%20Blonde%20Tom%20Sherohman%20Mikki%20Daniels.jpgTom Sherohman and Mikki Daniels. Photo by Michal Daniel, courtesy Jungle Theater.


    By Jon Behm, TC Daily Planet
    February 02, 2009
    Terry Johnson’s Hitchcock Blonde attempts to explore the mythos of Alfred Hitchcock’s voyeuristic fascination with his blonde leading ladies, under the auspices of a mystery play that strives to equal the old master’s gift for the opaque. The Jungle Theater is currently staging the play with fantastic noir-inspired lighting by Barry Browning and a thrilling dramatic score arranged by Sean Healey, under the talented oversight of director Joel Sass. However, the Jungle's creative team can't salvage this script: while running the length of nearly two Hitchcock films, the play fails to muster the gravitas of even one.

    <table align="right" border="0" bordercolor="#ffffff" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="10" width="40%"> <tbody><tr> <td>hitchcock blonde, a play written by terry johnson and directed by joel sass. presented through march 8 at the jungle theater, 2951 lyndale ave. s., minneapolis. For tickets ($28-$36) and information, see jungletheater.com.</td></tr></tbody></table> Blonde contains two simultaneous narratives. In one, a “Hitchcock Blonde” (Mikki Daniels) attempts to blackmail Hitchcock (Tom Sherohman) into helping cover up the murder of her husband, a silent Eric Knutson. The parallel storyline involves a present-day film professor, Alex (J.C. Cutler), who uses a “lost” Hitchock film as bait to whisk one of his students (Heidi Bakke’s Nicola) away to a Greek isle in order to seduce her. Where these narratives connect is in the lost film itself, which could be an early example of Hitchock’s film technique or simply an erotic film created for the man’s own pleasure...or just a big MacGuffin. As Alex and Nicola restore the lost film piece by piece, each frame is projected onstage, interspersed with scenes depicting making of said film. While the puzzle pieces are supposed to come together neatly as the drama increases, instead the plot moves with agonizingly slowness as we're subjected to endless exposition about the relationship between Alex and Nicola.
    The actors make do admirably with the clunky script. Sherohman’s Hitchcock is scarily accurate and more than a little creepy. J.C. Bates shines as Alex, adding nuance to the cliché of the middle-aged manipulator. Heidi Bakke capably portrays Nicola, though she occasionally sounds as if she learned her cockney accent from Dick Van Dyke. Where she redeems herself is in her precise comedic timing, which brings quite a number of laughs. Mikki Daniels’s Blonde is also a dynamic character, though she too struggles to master her accent—in this case one of an uneducated "broad" from the 20s. Her masterly portrayal of a woman unearthing a startling new revelation about the nature of her own sexuality is one of the production's high points.
    While Blonde contains a touch of mystery, it simply isn’t enough to carry the play—especially for over three hours. If one is to emulate the king of the enigma, more is required than conventional plot twists such as the contrivance about what may or may not be Alex’s cancer. The lost film itself is a bit more beguiling, but its true nature becomes obvious long before the “reveal." While this is an admirable effort by Sass, the technical staff, and the actors involved, the real mystery of the show is why Johnson’s script wasn’t pared down to something a bit more efficient.
    Jon Behm (jonbehm@gmail.com) is a Minneapolis-based photographer and writer. While his specialty is music, Jon has a wide variety of interests that tend to take him all over the Twin Cities on a daily basis.




  • edited September 2009
    Stuka-

    I just read your response and I completely understand where you're coming from. The other character that she is speaking to, in no way believes that she is Buddhist. The audience should and will probably feel the same. Especially since I'm realizing that she is full-of it- it is now my job to allow the audience to see that.

    It is only my intention to make sure that the gibberish coming from her mouth is in FACT nonsense and not something that has specific meaning or inflection. As the actor playing this role, I needed to see just how much truth was coming from her mouth and so the research began...

    Hopefully this will comfort you. I don't think that Terry Johnson wanted to imply that Buddhism shouldn't be taken seriously, only that this particular character has issues with death.

    Thank you all for your time and patience ~Devon
  • edited September 2009
    Directors have lee-way in their own local productions, including license to drop parts or pieces of the script.


    Perhaps some discussion of whether it is relevance and/or important to the story of whether your character really needs to be portrayed and identified as "a Buddhist", especially in this context, should be attempted.
  • edited September 2009
    OK mellyn11, I see what you are saying. it does put you in a difficult position in that it is indeed gibberish, but "Zen-like"-sounding gibberish. Perhaps batting your eyes and rocking your head back and forth while saying it (or some other overtly sexual bodily posturing), might convey this,...? -- but perhaps not.

    Sadly enough, there are folks who do fit the stereotype, though it's really, as I say, a "New-Agey" thing, rather than any sort of real understanding of the Buddha's teachings. You are having to walk a fine line here. And from what I see of the context of the play, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity to clarify the truth of things.

    Perhaps you could reference meditation without a specific reference to Buddhism?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2009
    As far as I am concerned, for my part, I'd be quie happy for you to use whatever you can take from my posts.
    I do very much echo What Stuka said with regard to the misconception People in general have about Buddhists.....
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited September 2009
    federica wrote: »
    As far as I am concerned, for my part, I'd be quie happy for you to use whatever you can take from my posts.
    I do very much echo What Stuka said with regard to the misconception People in general have about Buddhists.....


    Can we really afford to get 'precious' about inaccurate images? Each time I visit garden centres, I am met by Buddha statues as ornaments; there are Buddha-themed restaurants; and we have Hollywood stars who parade Buddhism like a piece of costume jewelry. I am reminded that, on pilgrimage to the tomb of John the Evangelist at Ephesus, our guide pointed out a Turkish baths called "Jesus Hammam".
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited September 2009
    The difference being that the images you speak of are inanimate and unspeaking....
    And we all know what the general Buddhist opinion of the hollywood starlets, is.....

    The character in this play is projecting an inaccurate image of Buddhists - if indeed the viewing public is being led to believe that this is a portrayal of someone following Buddhism.

    Just as novices (or 'newbuddhists') are 'corrected' about certain misconceptions they might have, through their questions, because of some misinformation they might have encountered, so are we also directing Devon in her quest to understand things better...
    She did after all, ask us for clarification, for that very reason.....
  • jinzangjinzang Veteran
    edited September 2009
    Trungpa Rimpoche talked about rising and setting sun mentalities in Shambhala Training. Here's a summary of his ideas on the subject:
    Seeing the world as it is and choosing to live in it is the hallmark of clarity. The four limitless qualities (or brahma viharas) of loving-kindness, compassion, joy, and equanimity are vitally important to clarity, as they keep the vision of reality from becoming obscured by our ego seeking. All four qualities are outwardly focused; rather than striving for our own pleasure or fulfillment, we seek to open our hearts to all beings. Also subsumed under the heading of clarity are the uniquely Shamabhalaistic terms "Great Eastern Sun" and "rejection of the cocoon". In brief, Great Eastern Sun is the rising sun, and a metaphor for hopefulness and positive action. It opposes "setting-sun thinking", which seeks comfort in judgment, blaming, violence, acquisitiveness, and mindless entertainment. The cocoon is the sheltering environment we wrap around ourselves for protection from the difficulties of daily life. The warrior-bodhisattva aspires to leave the cocoon behind to find a more enlightened way of being.
  • edited September 2009
    So these are terms unique to "Trungpa-ism/Shambhala-ism", rather than Buddhism.
    jinzang wrote: »
    Trungpa Rimpoche talked about rising and setting sun mentalities in Shambhala Training. Here's a summary of his ideas on the subject:
    ...Also subsumed under the heading of clarity are the uniquely Shamabhalaistic terms "Great Eastern Sun" and "rejection of the cocoon". In brief, Great Eastern Sun is the rising sun, and a metaphor for hopefulness and positive action. It opposes "setting-sun thinking", which seeks comfort in judgment, blaming, violence, acquisitiveness, and mindless entertainment...

    The whole "Shambhala Warrior Training" business is so obtuse and far-removed from the teachings of the Buddha as to bear only superficial resemblance at all to "Buddhism". This from the link jinzang provided:
    Shambhala is a magical, mystical place, inhabited wholly by enlightened beings and ruled by a king who received teaching directly from the Buddha. Though obviously mythical, this utopia stands as a powerful metaphor for what is possible for humans even in a single lifetime. Shambhala is also the name given to a secular spiritual philosophy which assumes that we all have pure goodness in us seeking modes of expression. Because kindness, gentleness, cheerfulness, and openness make us vulnerable in a hostile world, Shambhala invokes the image of a warrior to give us the strength and courage to follow through with our aspiration to bring these qualities to our relationship with the world and its beings. A Shambhala warrior-bodhisattva is a steward of the well-being of the world and all creatures in it. The basis of this philosophy is to live in the real world and seek to understand and be one with the truth.


    Shambhala was formulated by Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and introduced in a series of lectures in 1976. He developed these ideas further between then and the publication of the basic text, Shambhala: the Sacred Path of the Warrior in 1984. (All quotes in this essay are from this book unless otherwise indicated). Though he continued to develop the themes contained in this text until his death in 1987, the underlying principles remained unchanged. In order to make this philosophy attractive to the largest possible number of people, Trungpa separated it from the Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism within which he had studied, taught, and practiced nearly all his life. Inevitably, however, the influence of these teachings is a strong and essential part of Shambhala.

    ...

    Shambhala is largely secular, and although some flavor of the Tibetan remains in these centers, they were conceived and continue to operate in a fashion unthreatening to the Western sensibilities of even those entirely unfamiliar with Eastern philosophy of any sort...
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited September 2009
    As dubious as the provenance of the "Warrior Training" is, it's a pretty plausible basis for the quote Mellyn was originally asking about.
  • edited September 2009
    Yeah, FB. But by admission it's a separate "secular philosophy" and not really "Buddhism".
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