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Joining air force

TravisMagoTravisMago Explorer
edited November 2009 in General Banter
Well, economy is bad, and I need a livelihood. I want to be a monk but I am in debt, so I need to earn money and deal with that.

I can't come up with many solutions, and while I never wanted to join the military, the air force doesn't sound like that bad of an option.

Does anyone here have their own 2 cents to add?


Also, what if I was put in a situation where I had to kill someone else for self defense. I don't know how I would be able to handle that...

anyways thanks for any opinions

Comments

  • silversteinsilverstein
    edited October 2009
    From my reading of writings by the Dalai Lama, self defense is deemed acceptable (correct me if I intrepreted it wrong), I'm not sure about killing in self defense but I'd imagine it would be (again correct me if I'm wrong).
  • KnightofBuddhaKnightofBuddha
    edited October 2009
    Well congratulations on your decision to join the service. (Are you enlisted already?) Joining the Army has been the best decision of my life and I haven't regretted it once.

    It's not a decision to be made lightly though. No matter what you do, in the current war, there is no such thing as "the rear" in the military where you're safe and insulated from all danger. Just keep in mind that you may very well be faced with the situation where it's either kill or be killed.

    Congrats again though!
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2009
    Bankruptcy would be preferable.
  • KnightofBuddhaKnightofBuddha
    edited October 2009
    fivebells wrote: »
    Bankruptcy would be preferable.

    I think it's a very honorable career choice. Beats wasting your money on asinine college courses like "White Deconstruction" and "Queer Film Theory" with 6-figure salary teachers.

    Good job security. That's for sure.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2009
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    I think it's a very honorable career choice. Beats wasting your money on asinine college courses like "White Deconstruction" and "Queer Film Theory" with 6-figure salary teachers.
    If that were his only option, it is remotely possible that I would agree with you.
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    Good job security. That's for sure.
    Yes, there will always be money for killing people and sowing misery among the survivors, unfortunately.
  • nomadnomad
    edited October 2009
    Hello, Travis. We have an Air Force base here in the Dayton area and they are some of the nicest, most respectful, and most community-involved individuals I’ve ever known. I think that military service is an honorable thing to do. As for killing someone in self defense, I don’t know if there are many people that would have a problem with that. It is easy to sit behind a computer in the comfort of our own home and say that we would never kill someone else to defend our own lives, but when that time comes, our thought processes and natural reactions to danger may say otherwise. Good luck on your decision and let us know how it goes.

    ~nomad
  • sambodhisambodhi
    edited October 2009
    I don't know why you would willingly put yourself in a situation where you may have to kill another human being... But different strokes for different folks.
  • RenGalskapRenGalskap Veteran
    edited October 2009
    TravisMago wrote: »
    Well, economy is bad, and I need a livelihood. I want to be a monk but I am in debt, so I need to earn money and deal with that.
    I can certainly understand that.
    TravisMago wrote: »
    I can't come up with many solutions, and while I never wanted to join the military, the air force doesn't sound like that bad of an option.
    If you never wanted to join the military, then I'm doubtful that any branch would be a good choice. To me, that sounds kinda like "I don't want to marry any of the sisters, but the one with a Ferrari might not be that bad an option."

    If it's a choice between having your Honda repossessed and marrying one of the sisters, then I can understand how the one with the Ferrari might start looking kind of cute. But I'm still doubtful.
    TravisMago wrote: »
    Also, what if I was put in a situation where I had to kill someone else for self defense. I don't know how I would be able to handle that...
    Me neither. However, I would assume that if I joined the military I would be participating in, or at least supporting, actions that were offensive rather than merely defensive. Either it would be my job to kill people, or it would be my job to help ensure the success of people whose job it was to kill people.

    The US military in Afghanistan depends very heavily on air power to attack the Taliban. And since there are no immobile targets, it depends on members of various tribal groups to tell it where to attack. And since various tribal groups are in conflict with one another, our information sources often have scores to settle. So the USAF bombs what is supposedly a Taliban meeting, and it turns out to have been a wedding. Fifty civilians die along with two or three Taliban who were related to the couple and present solely as guests.

    The conflicts the US is engaged in right now are straining its resources. You will very likely be involved in one of those conflicts, and you are going to do whatever you are ordered to do. If this was something that you wanted to do, I wouldn't try to talk you out of it. But you never wanted to join the military, and you seem to be unaware that you may be killing people when you are not under attack, and you may even be killing people who are not the enemy.
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited October 2009
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    Beats wasting your money on asinine college courses like "White Deconstruction" and "Queer Film Theory" with 6-figure salary teachers.
    What the hell colleges are in YOUR area? :wtf: :lol:
  • Inji-gyoInji-gyo
    edited October 2009
    If you already have a college degree opt for the peace corps. Depending where you are Geographically there are a number of ways you can get help to get into school. I really feel that higher education is very important.

    I would not advise you to do something you never wanted to do just to make ends meet.
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited October 2009
    Well, morality aside, doing something just by the sake of it, if you don't really like it, can be quite hurtful and uninspiring and can make a person bitter.

    On the morality side, I know people who work in law enforcement in pretty grim conditions (jails here are horrible) and just by hearing their stories I get the feeling I would never want to have anything to do with that. I know that watching human beings stripped of any amount of dignity would make me suffer, specially if I was part of the system. In the case of military it might be similar, only in this case you would be stripping people of their lives, not (I hope) their dignity or freedom.

    I hope sincerely, with all my heart, that you can find another option.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2009
    <object width="425" height="344">
    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1JPULswVojE&hl=en&fs=1&&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
  • KnightofBuddhaKnightofBuddha
    edited October 2009
    fivebells wrote: »

    Yes, there will always be money for killing people and sowing misery among the survivors, unfortunately.

    Well do you feel the same way about police officers or law enforcement in general? They have to carry weapons and surely do kill and sow misery when they are threatened by violence from criminals. Would you advise as strongly against TravisMago if he had chosen a career in the constabulary?
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2009
    That's obviously a false analogy, KoB.
  • nomadnomad
    edited October 2009
    fivebells wrote: »
    That's obviously a false analogy, KoB.

    How so? Military and civilian police forces all over the world share similar missions and heritages. The main difference is the span of influence in which they operate.

    ~nomad
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2009
    nomad wrote: »
    How so? Military and civilian police forces all over the world share similar missions and heritages. The main difference is the span of influence in which they operate.
    Similar, but the differences are significant:<ul><li>Police are a force for stability. They maintain standards of behavior which are necessary for peaceful society, and ideally apply force only when those standards are violated, and only to the extent that those standards require. They are part of the community they police, so the abuses they commit tend to be relatively limited, and censured by the organization and their society as a whole. The military, at least as it operates in the US, is a force for destruction. They are sent various places around the world to destroy the existing communities there, in the hopes of installing something more amenable to US interests. Attempts to use them as a police force are uniformly disastrous, because they have no accountability to the people they are dominating, and end up destroying lives on a breathtaking scale. The widespread murder of Iraqi civilians by US contractors and military personnel is only the latest example of this dynamic.</li><li>Military personnel are <i>de facto</i> slaves, in the sense that they can be denied the option of quitting if they don't like the way they're being used. If a cop sees his department getting abusive in ways he can't stomach, he has the option to leave. The same is not true for military personnel being used to immorally oppress innocent people.</li></ul> The similarity stops at the fact that they both use violence, and they both rely on dominating people to get their jobs done. This does mean that both military and police organizations tend to have pretty unsavory cultures which attract many violent and domineering people, but for the purposes of evaluating a personal career choice, the similarity is pretty superficial.
  • KnightofBuddhaKnightofBuddha
    edited October 2009
    # Police are a force for stability. They maintain standards of behavior which are necessary for peaceful society, and ideally apply force only when those standards are violated, and only to the extent that those standards require. They are part of the community they police, so the abuses they commit tend to be relatively limited, and censured by the organization and their society as a whole. The military, at least as it operates in the US, is a force for destruction. They are sent various places around the world to destroy the existing communities there, in the hopes of installing something more amenable to US interests. Attempts to use them as a police force are uniformly disastrous, because they have no accountability to the people they are dominating, and end up destroying lives on a breathtaking scale. The widespread murder of Iraqi civilians by US contractors and military personnel is only the latest example of this dynamic.

    As a serviceman, I believe that just about everything you said is BS. The military is largely used as a police force in places outside of Afghanistan right now. In Iraq, the role of the army has been practically reduced to police and training. In Korea, the 40,000 odd servicemen protect the South from the Stalinists in the North, but since the 50s, they have almost entirely been security guards.

    And please don't make blanket accusations against the military. I think it's stunning that 150,000 + testosterone-filled young men are so well-behaved in Iraq. Outside of several isolated incidents, there are no stories of mass-murder and rape of the civilian populace. Al-Qaeda and its ilk are the main perpetrators of that over there.

    I acknowledge that America bullies people. But look who we bully...Saddam Hussein, Milosevic, Mullah Omar, Osama bin Laden, Hitler, Mussolini, and more. A real rogue's gallery of evil men.
    Military personnel are de facto slaves, in the sense that they can be denied the option of quitting if they don't like the way they're being used. If a cop sees his department getting abusive in ways he can't stomach, he has the option to leave. The same is not true for military personnel being used to immorally oppress innocent people.

    That's silly. It's so easy for you to just sit in front of your computer far removed from any danger of physical harm and imagine a fairyland where bad guys don't exist, and there is no need for uncouth militaries.

    I take it your a pacifist from your posts. Epaminondas, a greek general, destroyer of Sparta, and liberator of hundreds of thousands of slaves once remarked of pacifists that "they are in favor of slavery." In the sense that they would sooner let bad men do as they wish and enslave people than have the courage to stop them with force.
  • NamelessRiverNamelessRiver Veteran
    edited October 2009
    I take it your a pacifist from your posts. Epaminondas, a greek general, destroyer of Sparta, and liberator of hundreds of thousands of slaves once remarked of pacifists that "they are in favor of slavery." In the sense that they would sooner let bad men do as they wish and enslave people than have the courage to stop them with force.

    SLAVERY-GETS-SHIT-DONE.gif

    Sorry couldn't resist the joke :-P
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited October 2009
    Knight of Buddha wrote: »
    I take it your a pacifist from your posts. Epaminondas, a greek general, destroyer of Sparta, and liberator of hundreds of thousands of slaves once remarked of pacifists that "they are in favor of slavery." In the sense that they would sooner let bad men do as they wish and enslave people than have the courage to stop them with force.
    No, the policework isn't pacifistic in the slightest, and post you're responding to obviously accepts it. Anyway, Epaminondas is putting forward a false dichotomy. There is a world of difference between renunciation of violence and submission to slavery.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited November 2009
    As an Air Force veteran (ahem), I can add my two cents. I joined because I had been drafted, so had little choice of what to do. Canada? Viet Nam? Air Force? Prison? You choose. So I decided to go for the Air Force and work the system against itself as much as I could (which was quite a lot actually, as the military, even the Air Force, is run by a bunch of cretins). If you like languages, Travis, you might look into that as it's relatively removed from combat (usually, unless you're a Pashto linguist or an Arab linguist). However, I'd go with the other people who recommend some other option. Being drafted is one thing; volunteering is just plain stupid, in my opinion. You're not going to be doing anyone any good (least of all yourself), and you could come home in a box. But have fun!

    Palzang
  • gracklegrackle Veteran
    edited November 2009
    Travis,
    You might like to look into the U.S. Coast Guard. They do a lot of search and rescue. Some drug interdiction. I am not sure what their entry standards are as compared to the other services but you can find out more online.

    grackle
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