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Do you have trouble "quieting your mind"?

edited November 2009 in Meditation
I see this very often. Please consider...
"The purpose of meditation is to awaken in us the sky-like nature of mind, and to introduce us to that which we really are, our unchanging pure awareness, which underlies the whole of life and death.

In the stillness and silence of meditation, we glimpse and return to that deep inner nature that we have so long ago lost sight of amid the busyness and distraction of our minds. Isn't it extraordinary that our minds cannot stay still for longer than a few moments without grasping after distraction; they are so restless and preoccupied that sometimes I think that living in a city in the modern world, we are already like the tormented beings in the intermediate state after death, where the consciousness is said to be agonizingly restless. According to some authorities, up to 13 percent of the people in the United States suffer from some kind of mental disorder. What does that say about the way that we live?

We are fragmented into so many different aspects. We don't know who we really are, or what aspects of ourselves we should identify with or believe in. So many contradictory voices, dictates, and feelings fight for control over our inner lives that we find ourselves scattered everywhere, in all directions, leaving nobody at home.

Meditation, then, is bringing the mind home." -Sogyal Rinpoche, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying


Note that Sogyal Rinpoche does not say that meditation is the result, but the process itself. It is not simply being in the state-of-mind which he describes, but the journey to bring it to that state. Note that he also describes it as "glimpsing" this state.

You will experience small glimpses of this state-of-mind through meditation, as you've described. (Also note that meditation isn't the only means! You will experience these glimpses in everyday life as well :) ) And naturally, as we're human, a small voice/thought/sensation will pop up and bring us away from this state. The trick is to not become frustrated or look at this as a failure, but to identify it and let it go without judgement, and begin the journey once again to return to that state-of-mind. Be grateful for that small glimpse, as well as the interruption i.e. another chance to practice mindfulness. The entire process is meditation.

Even the Masters experience this. It's just that, the more you practice what I just desribed, the longer you'll be able to hold this state/the quicker you'll be able to enter it.

So if you view meditation with this understanding, the "problem" you're experiencing doesn't exist. :)

Namaste.

Comments

  • edited October 2009
    Somnilocus wrote: »
    I see this very often. Please consider...




    Note that Sogyal Rinpoche does not say that meditation is the result, but the process itself. It is not simply being in the state-of-mind which he describes, but the journey to bring it to that state. Note that he also describes it as "glimpsing" this state.

    You will experience small glimpses of this state-of-mind through meditation, as you've described. (Also note that meditation isn't the only means! You will experience these glimpses in everyday life as well :) ) And naturally, as we're human, a small voice/thought/sensation will pop up and bring us away from this state. The trick is to not become frustrated or look at this as a failure, but to identify it and let it go without judgement, and begin the journey once again to return to that state-of-mind. Be grateful for that small glimpse, as well as the interruption i.e. another chance to practice mindfulness. The entire process is meditation.

    Even the Masters experience this. It's just that, the more you practice what I just desribed, the longer you'll be able to hold this state/the quicker you'll be able to enter it.

    So if you view meditation with this understanding, the "problem" you're experiencing doesn't exist. :)

    Namaste.
    Excellent advice
  • edited October 2009
    Thanks, Somnilocus. Especially because I'm a beginner, this is something I want to keep in mind. I first tried meditating a month ago and it didn't seem to go well, so I got overly frustrated to the point where I just gave up for a while. But this week I've been working at it again. I'm trying to remember things like this so I don't get so easily discouraged, and now I'm actually enjoying meditating!
  • edited November 2009
    Decrease the stim. Awakening is silence. Ah.
  • AriettaDolenteAriettaDolente Veteran
    edited November 2009
    I find the best way of silencing that "little voice" in the head is to simply listen to it, like an amused parent listening to a precocious child vying for attention. When it is put on the spot, it will quickly run out of things to say (unlike the child, perhaps). ;)
  • edited November 2009
    If my meditation practice has shown me anything it is that I have far less control over my mind and thoughts than I once believed. The seen and unseen stimulus to the mind is too overwhelming and complex. The mind doesn't stand a chance when faced with this reality.

    Even the meditation practice itself seems to be no longer within my control. I find myself sitting out of a sense of reaction as opposed to intention. It seems to serve more as a temporary respite than anything else.
  • edited November 2009
    Excellent Advice. For those who don't understand what Somnilocus is saying, a translation might be: Even your thoughts and your chaotic mind should be the object of observation. When you meditate, then, it is ok to focus on your breath, and when you think, it is ok to focus on your thoughts.

    A more simple translation might be: First, observe what comes first. Second, observe what comes second. :)
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited November 2009
    Max H wrote: »
    If my meditation practice has shown me anything it is that I have far less control over my mind and thoughts than I once believed. The seen and unseen stimulus to the mind is too overwhelming and complex. The mind doesn't stand a chance when faced with this reality.

    Even the meditation practice itself seems to be no longer within my control. I find myself sitting out of a sense of reaction as opposed to intention. It seems to serve more as a temporary respite than anything else.

    A method that has helped me immeasurably to maintain some quiet, is to identify where the thoughts are coming from. Anxiety? Impatience? Whatever they are, the most predominant source of the thoughts, can be accepted and even embraced with very positive outcomes as mentioned by Somnilocus.

    The method I was taught, was to the source (let's say anxiety), we ask it to sit beside you as a welcomed guest. Being a guest, you as a host can expect that anxiety (the guest) will be a gracious guest and honor your wish that it be silent. I have found this to be a very effective approach that removes my resistance and it sets an excellent setting for meditating. What I also found was that it increased my ability to accept my own weaknesses and nurture myself rather than beat myself up. When I began this, my meditation became more than temporary respite.
    Best regards

    Namaste
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    edited November 2009
    That works for a lot of stuff, but for the really fundamental stuff, you won't get an answer, and it won't honor your expectation.
  • edited November 2009
    A method that has helped me immeasurably to maintain some quiet, is to identify where the thoughts are coming from. Anxiety? Impatience? Whatever they are, the most predominant source of the thoughts, can be accepted and even embraced with very positive outcomes as mentioned by Somnilocus.

    The method I was taught, was to the source (let's say anxiety), we ask it to sit beside you as a welcomed guest. Being a guest, you as a host can expect that anxiety (the guest) will be a gracious guest and honor your wish that it be silent. I have found this to be a very effective approach that removes my resistance and it sets an excellent setting for meditating. What I also found was that it increased my ability to accept my own weaknesses and nurture myself rather than beat myself up. When I began this, my meditation became more than temporary respite.
    Best regards

    Namaste

    I have read of similar methods and have not been able to apply this conception because it seems like an illusory construct to me.

    What I have pursued is to try to understand that however I react to, or whatever I think, is a natural response to all previous actions and all current conditions. This includes my meditation practice as well since it originated out of the suffering of chronic insomnia.

    Having only initially read about the mechanics of meditation I was totally unprepared for the impact it has had and continues to have on this journey. Out of the sole desire of just wanting to get to sleep, meditation has forced me to significantly alter my perception of my own identity to the point that at times I wonder if I even truly exist. Don't get me wrong, I am aware that a body is typing what a mind is thinking. But, even in completing specific tasks I wonder if the control that I believe that I have is illusory.

    To sloppily sum up, everything that I thought that I once knew has become a question for which answers are becoming ever more elusive. The reality of a dense web of interdependence that goes beyond anything that I had previously imagined has grown to a point that the only way that I have been able to identify myself is by the converse of what I am not rather than any conception of what I am.
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    edited November 2009
    Max H wrote: »
    I have read of similar methods and have not been able to apply this conception because it seems like an illusory construct to me.

    What I have pursued is to try to understand that however I react to, or whatever I think, is a natural response to all previous actions and all current conditions. This includes my meditation practice as well since it originated out of the suffering of chronic insomnia.

    Having only initially read about the mechanics of meditation I was totally unprepared for the impact it has had and continues to have on this journey. Out of the sole desire of just wanting to get to sleep, meditation has forced me to significantly alter my perception of my own identity to the point that at times I wonder if I even truly exist. Don't get me wrong, I am aware that a body is typing what a mind is thinking. But, even in completing specific tasks I wonder if the control that I believe that I have is illusory.

    To sloppily sum up, everything that I thought that I once knew has become a question for which answers are becoming ever more elusive. The reality of a dense web of interdependence that goes beyond anything that I had previously imagined has grown to a point that the only way that I have been able to identify myself is by the converse of what I am not rather than any conception of what I am.

    My experience has been different than yours. I guess people react as differently as there are ways to think or believe. It could also be my particular state of meditative development.

    Perhaps my mind is noisier than yours, who knows. The technique really led me to insight in respect to myself and it provides a setting that is conducive to more disciplined meditation on my part. It has also aided me in the acceptance and loving kindness towards my own foibles. It has been a boon to my practice.

    Namaste
  • shadowleavershadowleaver Veteran
    edited November 2009
    Thanks for the great post!

    I have found exactly that during meditation I get small glimplses of a clearer and calmer mind but a lot of the time I just sit there observing the mental boiling and sometimes trying to fight it. In the end of the session, I'm usually somewhat more "here" than before it, yet not dramatically so.

    But, I console myself, Rome wasn't built in a day.
  • RichardHRichardH Veteran
    edited November 2009
    Speaking from my own experience on the cushion, there is no such thing as a wrong condition. An unquiet mind is no different than a quiet one. It makes to difference to the space in this room whether I dance and scream, or lay here quietly. A fundamentally quiet mind includes, and does not obstruct, thoughts and feelings. When thoughts and feelings are absolutely free to follow there own nature, they are happy. It is only in absorbtion that they are completely supended.

    It may be different for others.
  • edited November 2009
    One thing I've noticed is that my mind is a lot clearer when I meditate first thing in the morning. For me these sessions, often at 5 or 6 in the morning, are far better than later in the day. I usually meditate when I get home from work as well. But with the day's activities and details still in short term memory, they tend to keep popping up a lot more than in the morning.
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