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How does this medium shape debate?
RichardH
Veteran
Since it is the working policy of this site not allow someone to un-register once they have registered, I have decided to continue posting, that lock goes both ways. However I have lost interest (and patience) with these interminable opinion battles (I'm guilty too). Getting an unhinged private message about “%$#$%$# WAR” when I posted the topic "take refuge.." was enough to take care of that. So what I would find interesting is to look at the forum itself, not this forum in particular, but the medium and how it seems to frequently reduce everything to a battle of opinions . Since this is not about a particular view but how we present our views online, there is no right answer, just impersonal observations. If no one has anything to say, I'll keep the thread alive by dropping by now and then, looking around, and making an observation. If there has already been a thread like this, that's o.k. here's another one.
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Comments
Well yeah, many threads degenerate into battles, but you can still find nice posts
I completely disagree with everything you've said and I want to argue about it for weeks.
How 'bout it, huh?
Warm regards,
Miss Cheeky
P.S. Glad you're not leaving.
It would be interesting to experiment with posting a topic that is interesting to discuss, but do it in a way that is skillful and does not cause battles.. ...... not that I have ever done that:(
The first thing I want to say is that I Love This Forum and at least half of its contributors.
The trouble with life anywhere, though, is that people need to express themselves more than they need to listen and we have very few real listeners here.
Simonthepilgrim, Federica, Brigid, and Palzang are four that stick out in my mind as listeners.
I think the people who listen tend to be the ones who seem to have the most fun, too. However, I want to say another word about fun.
As much of the reason for coming here and discussing is to have an experience that engages ones mind and heart, a key consideration should be remembering to be civil and polite. Of course, it never hurts to be sweet, either!
PEOPLE SHAPE DEBATE, not the medium. I know I'm really not answering your question, Sir. I was dumbfounded by your thread on the wherefores of Why use pseudonyms? and although I contemplated responding a couple of times, there was no way of my doing so civilly. And I say that respectfully, not in any way reflecting on you or your question. I find that oftentimes it is better to say nothing at all.
In the case of Why use pseudonyms? It was like asking Catholics why they went to Mass. I AM NIRVANA. That is the name my swami gave me. I may be anal-retentive, but I behave the same on NB as I behave in private e-mails and school web pages. However, I AM SPIRIT. I am not who the government sayeth that I am. I am not my identity. I am spirit.
You claimed in the above titled thread that you were new to online forums. I think that answers why the question is framed in the difficult way it is.
It's mind-boggling the possibilities that the internet opens to us citizens of the world. The real question is not how this medium limits debate, but rather how much this medium has opened up unlimited possibilities for discovery and self-discovery and for enhanced cross-cultural understanding.
This medium is shaped by its content just as much as its content is shaped by its medium
Put another way, these media facilitate debate in making it possible for the virtually unlimited potential of people coming together in convenient ways.
These media have the capacity to perpetuate any unresolved debate and have greater potential for resolving conflict once things fall into place. This is evidenced by the consensus which with most threads eventually peter out. The question more pregnant with possibilities for discovering answers to your question is what are the reasons threads are closed.
Fede should be able to help answer this question.
Alternatively, OTHER scientists might investigate this question with greater complexity and less clarity. (Go, Fede!)
If the power went out for two weeks straight, where would we be without all our toys we've grown accustomed to? I doubt I'd be having the kinds of discussions we all have on this board with many of my neighbors.
However, for me this forum is not about debate. Debate is a diversion. This is an online sangha for those of us who want to learn more and more, whether bit by bit (as with me) or bucket by bucket.
All shall be well, either way!
Online it is essentially a bunch of armchair politicians individually locked in their own soundproof booth screaming and bashing on the walls.
The debates can be good for entertainment purposes, but don't usually provide truth, progress or anything of practical value. They're usually made-up problems, or posers if you will. Why this or why that? Who Cares?
Ok, if it's something personal that's one thing, but when it's neither here nor there it's all thumb twiddling and ruminating. To actually provide someone with real power, give them a bucket and spade or a rifle and tell them to volunteer- go get off your seat and get involved.. don't talk about it.
You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time.
Susie
x
I have noticed that on other sites too.
If you want to leave, why cant you delete your account?
Just a question, tis all
I'm not familiar with forum software, but I assume that they're built on relational databases. If you actually deleted an account, there would probably be no way to identify the author of a post, which would make it hard to follow the discussions in old threads. Deleting the account may cause other problems, depending on how the database is structured.
I have tried to delete my account before (on a different forum, not this one) and i found you couldn't do it. It seemed rather strange at the time.
Its a shame when it feels like you need to get away really
Doesn't sound like this website to me. I'll admit that there's a lot of rude behaviour coming on board here with the influx of all the new users right now, but that's just a small part of our message board. Moreover, the individual user can utilize the ignore function to create his or her personal spam filter.
Incidentally, that might be a good thing. For the ignore function to work you have first to sign on. You can be anonymous either way, I believe, as a mere viewer.
However, having that Ignore function —is that an element on how this medium "shapes" debate? I think that is an interesting subtopic to this basically scientific query.
Nice Post. However, reflection is also important. Socrates said an unexamined life is one not worth living. It's true we have a lot of obnoxious and disrespectfully flippant posts on online discussion groups, but reading and/or communicating with the great spirits who frequent boards like this make all that mental garbage worth wading through.
It's the rudeness that bothers me most. People should give the other guy the benefit of the doubt and posit that he or she may very well be speaking from the heart. Having posited this, people should try to investigate the core issue of the matters brought up rather than dismissing them as meaningless. In other words, if a subject is brought up in a respectful way, why attack the person presenting it. Doing so accomplishes nothing but feeding one's own ego needs, and ego-needs bring attachments, not liberation.
If someone, for instance, took on a user name of Adolph H or some other notorious person and was posting, why could I not raise the question about the why of that name? I just want to know something. I don't believe it's ever rude to bring up questions in a neutral or interested tone.
I guess what I'm trying to say in the paragraph above is that often it is the insecurity of us frail human beings that reads negative stuff into the words of others. Mention our names and we feel under attack. So many wasted opportunities, and yet we continue on our courses.
I feel that human frailty shapes debate more than the medium used. Where we already stand is where we WILL continue to stand; even a bulldozer cannot budge our mindset.
New Buddhist is just fine. Metta.
But, more to the point, my last post here was intent on addressing the subject of this your thread by tossing it about a bit. If I meant to be taken seriously on this matter you have responded to I'd have addressed it on the thread.
It does seem to me, though, Kind Sir, that usernames, pseudonymns, or whatever you wanna call these anonymous identities we have can rather destroy any level playing field if mischief-makers or just flippant people out to enjoy themselves wanna chime in whenever. I guess that was part of what I had initially meant to say but got sidetracked on. Pseudonymns can impede genuine debate and that is a problem I think you had with their use. I do tend to stay up and write too late at times and should really be in bed catching my z's. Well, you were right: pseudonyms are not without their drawbacks. A thorough-going debate might best be conducted in a "designated participants only" forum.
Sorry for any confusion. I must say, though, that I should probably take a break from this forum awhile, as quite a few of you have indicated that you perceived a need to be right in me. All I'm doing, really, is clarifying my thinking. My thinking is often flawed, and of course I realize that. To be human is to make mistakes. Also, the older I get the more easily I am confused.
Metta,
Nirvy
Speaking of misinterpretation. After recieving a scary message about "%&$%& WAR!" I went into stealth mode. Then the little light on my cp turned red, which I interpeted as being flagged by a site administrator, this precipitated further misperception. Jeeeez
Sometimes the smaller ones are very 'cliquey' and won't include you.
The big ones can be so big they ignore you.
Its finding a happy medium i guess.
When i joined here it wasn't so busy. Then a couple of weeks later, loads of other people joined and it got really busy.
I don't think its so bad that you get ignored though.
Do you think people notice if your gone?
I noticed that Richard had gone.
I wonder if anyone would notice if i did :rolleyes:
Seriously though, it is a community, even if we don't all get on all of the time.
Are you sure he didn't say "you came here to put a sock in it and sit"
:lol:
*sorry Richard, i couldn't resist that one*
See, you don't get this at the small sangha :poke:
LOL
Welcome to democracy! Raucous debate is the price to be paid for an open society. Compared to a lot of other forums, I think the debate here is unusually civil. Just pull up any Youtube video about even the least controversial topic, and you're sure to see under it, "F*** you...John McCain sucks...F*** Obama, Your mother....etc...Well concerning evolution, you're a moron...etc..."
Internet anonymity breeds terrible social ills. As the Welsh say, "It's easy to be brave behind a wall." But here on this forum, the profanity is almost non-existent and when rarely used, is never directed at someone personally. I think the debates are pretty lively.
Yes, I think it does. If I'm contributing I'll try and make sure I haven't ignored anything so that the content isn't repeating. If I'm reading only, I'll skim to the juicy bits.
Socrates was either misquoted or was/is wrong. An unexamined life is better than no life. Of course, he was a philosopher, so I guess you'd be pretty rubbish if you did not question everything... so I'll let him off
Yes, that is your choice, although the obvious answer is that the person in question is posturing. I think it's interesting that some people feel the need to explain all their actions, either to themselves or others, like they don't really know whether it's okay to do something or not. I think it's easy to become enslaved by our own thoughts and beliefs, almost as if we cage ourselves as a form of protection.
Hmm, we're often condemned for our opinions. Thinking is definitely very important, but still, there's no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
This may not suit many, but I have found it very effective.
"the first Noble Truth of Cyberspace is that we bring our baggage with us. All the ways of being that we are, whether enthusiastic, idealist, romantic, naive, ambitious, envious, impatient, practical, doubting, bigoted, selfish, (and I add, violent) will manifest in the non-material reality called cyberspace".
So I say that the cyberspace is not for the fainthearted.
It also does not help that if one "loses" the debate his "embarassment" is kept for posterity so it sometimes degenerates to intellectual wrestling with its attendant violence, albeit in words because one does want to lose face.
Anyway, I have no physical sanga in my spiritual community except when I go to India occasionally, so I take this medium for what its worth.
My practice is when things get heated and get out of bounds of common decency I just ignore the thread or leave the board for sometime maybe for weeks and smell the roses.
Namaste
You mean my online hole will fill up?
Scream!!!!! :eek:
You're all lying! I know you'd notice i'd gone! I know it! :crazy:
*you are all under my evil hamster influence*
Mwahahahahahahahah!
The increased aggression we often see in forums is the the same effect we see on the roads. The protective shell of a car gives people the sense that they're in their own comfortable little world, a world detached from the one in which their actions have real human consequences. People are kings of their car and kings of their computer screen. The lad or lass who cuts you up, flicks you the v sign and speeds off almost certainly wouldn't do the same if they almost bumped into you walking down the street. You just have to roll with it sometimes, whether driving on the motorway or the information superhighway.