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What is the ultimate goal?
searching_samsara
Explorer
O.k. so forgive my ignorance here but i have to ask what is the ultimate goal of the buddhist? Before you all scream in unison "Nirvana" STOP and really answer this question. If it is nirvana then doesn't wanting nirvana lead you away from ........well i don't know? If you desire something (nirvana in this case) isn't that just attachement and pursuit of something desirable? Doesn't this pursuit lead you away from your "path?"
Also while on the subject "What is makinds ultimate goal?" I don't think we have one do we?
Also while on the subject "What is makinds ultimate goal?" I don't think we have one do we?
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It may be my slant on it all but sometimes trying to use Buddhism or any approach as the answer to the Universe is just to go down a blind alley. I don't see the attempts people make to find faults as helping them any. All language and thought contains contradictions and imperfections - thought is not truth, it's limited perception. My take is its the questions our minds ask that are faulty, that's why you can't find a nice answer where everthing fits.
If you asked me 'what's the meaning of life or what's the point of your life' people would accept it. If you asked the same of a rose you would be thought odd. It's not just that the rose would not understand your language! The logic of the human condition does not bother it...I wonder if we have more advanced thinking than the rose?
interesting the rose thing. If you just want to "be" then consider a rose, Does it need to be validated by past roses? Does it need to dream of its future rose-ness? No it just is, like us.
You are supposed to pursuit what is wholesome. People have a tendency these days of being nihilistic, but the only way you make progess (in anything) is to steer your will to good things instead of letting it toss you in the fire. This is by itself a really huge deal.
I agree with Nameless.
Ultimately, the teachings of the Buddha were concerned with the nature of, and the quenching of dukkha. These teachings are pursued to varying degrees, and for various reasons.
The subject of the second Noble Truth is tahna, which is very poorly translated as "desire" at times. It literally means "thirst." It's the kind of desire that is craving, born from ignorance to the truth of impermanence, anatta, and dukkha, and of attachment. If this is what one has for the attainment of Nibbana, then it too must be let go of before that goal can be achieved.
Without any form of desire, though, one would become apathetic and catatonic.
Self-destruction? :rolleyes:
Some might say that Buddhism is one thing, but that there are very many approaches, or ways of doing it.
It is my opinion that, in order for Buddhism to be useful, workable, or even intimate on any level, that it must first be relevant to us, right where we are, and right now, and not something make-believe, or merely conceptual.
Buddha said that, we should only accept what we ourselves can witness personally, (and this isn’t a pretend thing that we cannot see or understand), no matter how nicely it is said, or presented.
It seems strange to me that, many people do choose Nirvana as a goal, without actually understanding what Nirvana is. I know this isn’t an easy thing to ferret out. But, I believe we should intend to figure out what Nirvana is, or why on earth make it our life's goal? Otherwise, it is a bit like, “The blind leading the blind.”
S9
We humans tend to think that we are special. We like to think that we are apart from nature.
We can never be other than nature itself and as such subjected to its laws of impermanence. There is no permanent unchanging self to be found anywhere. What is born must die. Aging, sickness, death and separation is our lot.
Unlike plants and animals we are capable of intelligent thoughts and creativity, of love, kindness and compassion but also of the great cruelty and horrors.
We create stories, meanings, concepts etc and believe them to be true. We go round chasing dreams and ideals. Imagine what would happen if this home we call "Earth" was to be struck by a giant comet tomorrow.
What then is the meaning of life? No one has the answer but know only this: All is impermanent, unsatisfacory and not self. Nothing is to be clung to as me, mine or myself.
So where to from here? the way i see it is this life is only about preparing for the transition period we call death. If your 'enlightened' and are not preparing for death then maybe you miss the point of buddhist theology. If you cannot remain enlightened at this point then you will disintigrate and at the point you need to be paying attetion you wont be. Welcome back to samsara Mr. Roberts!! I'm afraid you'll just have to be re-born wherever we have space because the fear of your death led you away from the true nature of things, see ya in 70 years!!
It's good for people to question their beliefs and... think about them.
What does "nothingness" and "Nibbana" mean to you? What do you understand Buddhism to teach you about dukkha and quenching it? Also, what does "Dhamma" mean to you?
I'm not sure what you're thinking "enlightenment" and "Nibbana" mean because the entire point is being "prepared for" ANYTHING in life, including death (or I should say, the impermanent nature of anything).
In the suttas, deeply and directly understanding the truth of the Dhamma has been called "the deathless ambrosia." I'm not sure what point you're at in your practice, or what your understanding of Buddhism is in general, but this isn't meant to be taken in the literal sense, so...
"Knowing" on an intellectual level is not what Buddhism is about. This is a good place to start, but you seem to have found that it's next to useless.
Not all Buddhists believe in rebirth and many take an agnostic approach. If you are worrying about death then how are you "truly living in the moment" and how do you "truly understand the nature of things"?
Of course, if you identify your self as being the body/mind, then what happens to the body/mind will most certainly happen to you, or at least YOU will see it that way, because you are dreaming.
(Although, we could go into some detail about what death actually is, and investigate more deeply still, couldn't we?)
But, just what if, identification with the body/mind is “Wrongful Identification?” Buddha spoke of such things happening.
What then? Perhaps you could think about this possibility. : ^ )
Being receptive, means opening up to new possibilities, does it not? Let’s not put up as sign, quite yet, that says, “Road ends here.”
If we sit down to meditate, thinking we already know most of the answers, these very answers are an obstruction to our seeing with “New Eyes.”
This is a journey into both wonder and awe. Don't jip yourself out of this treasure by asking for too little.
: ^ )
Reach out, and take your inheritance,
S9
As a species, the human animal is very adaptive. That is why Buddhism is so many things, to so many people.
For instance, if they are the kind of person who can only be comfortable, when things are tied down once/and/for/all, and also made very simple to understand, than you will take up Buddhism, and make it into a dogma; because that is what fills your needs.
But, this need no trouble you, anymore than that some people like anchovies on their pizza. It takes nothing away from your Buddhism. It need not be us against them. There is plenty of Buddhism for everyone.
The whole idea of us being like a rose and blooming according to our own built in schedule is reassuring, because it says, “We cannot fail.” “Who we are is enough.” “WE don’t have to worry about being the one who get left out, or even rejected.” “It isn’t a competition.”
I don’t know if what I am about to say will be helpful to you, or if you are way beyond this. So please bare with me and narrow in on what you wish to address further. : ^ )
If you make Nirvana into a mind object, which you want to get and own, like any other trinket, than you will miss the whole point of what Nirvana is.
Nirvana certainly isn’t going to be something that you can sum up in 40 words or less, because many of our greatest mind’s, throughout history, have been investigating into Nirvana for centuries.
It certainly isn’t a thing, because some smart fellow would have figured out how to package it, and sell it by now.
As in, “Get your Nirvanas, while they last. They are flying off the shelves, back here, folks. First come, first serve.” ; ^ )
I don’t believe the human animal can live without desire. He wouldn’t even live for very long if he didn’t desire to eat. So, perhaps all that is left to us in such circumstances as these is to choose our desires wisely.
Perhaps, we might start by living wisely, and see where that leads us. Living wisely would certainly include understanding; “Who are you,” “Where are you,” and “What exactly is going on?”
This is where Buddhism, one of the finest psychologies ever created, (if nothing more), steps up to the plate, and provides you with a fine a, “HOW to find out.”
You might look into the question, “What exactly is attachment?” Or you might question the whole concept of separation, “Is there such a thing as separation?” Or you might go further to question, “What exactly is attachment, if there is no such thing as separation?” “How can you be attached to something, if it isn’t separate?” Etc.
The mind can go on like this for days. Don’t get me stared. ; ^ )
.
Perhaps this is why the Buddha told us to look directly, and not to depend upon a conceptual answer to these things. Meditation is a perfect method for looking directly, or training you to do so.
I think that in some instinctual place, the body is afraid of death, and will remain so. I believe that this is a tool to our survival, which is built in, in order to keep our species with a strong drive to stay alive. This is similar to the startle reflex, or the blink of an eye, and we cannot totally remove it.
I do think, however, that we can come to understand the fear of death, and allow it to be what it is. We do not, however, need to get all-emotional about it, and add to our suffering.
This is similar to how we can stop suffering, but we cannot remove pain compleatly, because that would be dangerous to our well-being. Without pain, we might not notice that we were being burned or even cut badly, and remove ourselves from the offending circumstance.
How I do go on. : ^ )
Hope this helps you.
S9
The first and foremost subject of the Buddha's teaching was the Four Noble Truths. The Blessed One said "These are true sufferings, these are true sources, these are true cessations, these are true paths. Sufferings are to be known, their sources are to be abandoned, their cessations are to be actualized, the paths are to be cultivated...."
This is the framework of the Buddha's profound realization and teaching. Within this framework, is found the ultimate goal, namely, the cessation of suffering (dukkha - unsatisfactoriness). Everything else, including the eightfold path, are methods to achieve the ultimate goal. And Nibbana (The Indescribable) - how can something "indescribable" be set as a goal?
Goal has different meanings. Here, I take it to mean "a point marking the end of the journey"
or simply the "destination". It could also be taken as the "purpose" or "aim". I am not using it in the context that it is "the object of ambition". If it were the latter, then it becomes an object of clinging...
This has been my understanding so far... but that may change...
maybe i've always been aware of the nature of things but failed to understand until buddhism discovered me. A quick outline of my life so far goes thus; I'm 41 and for the past 20 years i was addicted to hard drugs (heroin, crack, tablets) When asked why i used drugs and opted out of what society had to offer my answer was: The pursuit of material wealth and stuff is not for me (everyone constantly told me this is what i needed to be happy) when asked why i 'hated' the world i would answer: Its all the suffering i can't stand (without being able to elaborate on what i really meant by that) The final bar to my prison if you like was the fact that i'm gay and no religion had a place for me, I was always going to 'hell' for being me and society's so called tolerance was really non existent. I don't want to be tolerated do i? I want to fit.
I managed to kick the drugs and buddhism seemed to appear out of the ether at the right moment. I'm now a calm well balanced guy (so i think) who has very little and doesn't crave anything, its all just stuff isn't it? Does having a fancy haircut make me a better person? Does owning the latest flatscreen tv make what i have to say any more important or meaningful? Buddhism just kinda fit. I always knew these things but buddhism kinda confirmed that my thinking wasn't outrageous or wrong.
The way i see it there is more than one path, even the Buddha himself taught differenr things to the different people he met depending on how they were. Its not a panacea for the masses is it? Ther's no 'one size fits all' solution is there? If people think i'm a bad buddhist because it comes easy or they think i'm not doing right, well Judgementalness comes from the small self speaking.
Thanx again all and as ever your thoughts and comments are welcomed.
You are very fortunate to be gay. There is nothing more precious in this world than difficulty. In fact, our biggest enemy is comfort, and fitting in. It is in this way that we become complacent, and stay asleep.
Whereas the Buddha pointed out the difficulties in life, right off the bat. “Suffering is.” And if you didn’t believe him, he rubbed sickness, old age, and death, right in your face. Buddha didn’t want us comfortable. He wanted us to Wake Up!
It is very well accepted in the psychoanalytical circles these days that, many people who end up using drugs are actually misguided seekers. They unfortunately are still looking outwardly into the world for their answers. Wrong direction.
Just about everyone (every Buddhist anyway) you will ever meet, has their own ideas about what Nirvana is. But, most of these same people are still using their minds to understand Nirvana.
The mind is the wrong tool for doing this. That is why Zen says, “Don’t look at the finger (words) that is pointing at truth. Look where the finger is pointing,” (Out side of mind).
Insights of a spiritual kind are not mind-bound. They transcend the mind. This is why everyone seems to be dancing around the truth, when they think Nirvana is a mind object. (The Wheel of Samsara is how the brain works, as in engrams, or memory traces.). They are not going directly at the truth, they are trying to imagine it, or rather trying to capture it in a net of words and word pictures.
Warm regards,
S9
:om::rockon:
Satsang (speaking on this forum) is very strange in this way. Very often, when you are sharing with another person what you feel to be true, truths will begin to flow, not only out of you, but actually through you. This is almost like you have primed the pump for receiving the truth, simply by trying to lend a helping hand to another. It is almost magical in this way.
Often when I am speaking, I am also learning, from my own words. (Crazy as this seems.) This is almost like my own words and your words are a letter from home, (the Ultimate) for both of us, if you will.
This is also how kindness (to another) seems to work. It is almost as if by getting into the attitude of compassion, that we are also able to be kinder to our own selves, or not quite so harsh against our selves, and our own personal failings. Have you noticed this too?
In this way, compassion isn’t something we do, so much as it is a medicine to heal our ailing hearts.
Very often, what we feel we want and need the most, is also what many other people are starving for equally. (The exact same thing.) So we can get the ball rolling, not by grabbing what we want for ourselves and letting everyone else do the same, but by giving what we most want (perhaps love) to someone else. Then the magic begins. You give love or kindness to someone, and “BAM,” love and kindness come right back at you often from the same person.
I used to say to my teen-age daughter, "If you want a friend, then you go first. Don't wait for a stroke of luck to come your way."
It is my contention that we ARE all in Nirvana right in this very moment. The problem is that we do not see this to be true. We are blinded by wrongful notions.
Why do we not see this? Because we think that we are living in the mind, and we let the mind define everything for us.
Meditation is a great way to study mind, and see what the mind is, and to see what the mind isn’t. When we see clearly what mind is/is not, we also see how the mind obscures our looking directly at Ultimate Reality.
Q: Liberation is not of the the mind, but from the mind."
Peace,
S9
For Ananda's answer to this question, see SN 51.15.
That is very well put.
Buddhism’s greatness lies in how well it does just this, and how subtle this journey is capable of becoming. We are not looking at accumulation of truth here; so much as we are looking at DEPTH of the truth.
Respectfully,
S9
The dictionary defines happiness as "a state of pleasure or satisfaction". But I thought Buddhists strive to attain liberation from attachment to pleasure and satisfaction, and that our desire to be happy is viewed as perhaps our biggest barrier to enlightenment.
Yet, one could describe liberation as a "happy place" ... but it's not happy in the way we Westerners usually think of as happy.
I think. Hard to say for sure when I am yet far from enlightened.
Comments?
I think you are on to something here. : ^ )
I believe that most people confuse happiness with pleasure. But, pleasure/pain is a never-ending roller coaster ride. Pleasure seduces you in, and once you are hooked in this cycle, pain kicks you around for a while.
So what do we do, when pain has done her worst, knee jerk? We right run back into the arms of pleasure for another ride. Go figure!
True happiness should probably better be called ‘Satisfaction.’ When you have witnessed both pleasure and pain dancing around each other with no good resolution, and grown very tired (exhausted) of that same old game, you finally take one step back and no longer identify with either of these liars. (Pleasure, or pain.)
This is the ‘Middle Way,’ where True Satisfaction lives, or where Liberation from ‘Wrongful Identity (with pleasure-me and pain-me) presides.
Warm Regards,
S9
We are born here, we meet people to love, we learn things and then ultimately we get sick, we suffer physical pains, we leave the ones we love, we unlearn everything we learnt when we die and then we go and are born again somewhere. And the whole thing starts all over again …
If we have bad karma we will even be born as a dog in the streets, or even lower realms than that. If I look at that bigger picture, not just this lifetime of existence, then all this seem so temporary and it all seems like suffering with moments of temporary happiness here and there. I certainly don’t like this to go on and on and on … By far, non-existence seems peaceful
How so? There is a very clear and well spoken of goal in Buddhism. That is the attainment of enlightenment: the end of suffering. End of suffering is end of existence in any realm by ending the attachments and defilements that bind us to births/existence in any realm.
These attachments are not just craving and clinging to food, sex, love, feeling extremely sad when someone dies etc but hard-coded, ground-level defilements like the attachments to a "self". They cannot be eradicated by mere reasoning; if so most of us should be enlightened by now. This is clearly specified by the Buddha in "dependent origination".
My new theory ; the ultimate goal.. is to unclog the pipe that connects us from the Uber Perspective.. once we attain or realize our connection to that.. there is nothing else we will/could want.. it's the zenith of understanding.... an end to suffering and desire by it's own nature, of being an all pervading perspective...
but of course we have to learn of and validate it's existence ourselves to even begin,
and that's Buddhism!
Enlightenment is the end of the road for a Buddhist, but I do not see it as a goal
Hmmm, that's an interesting way of putting it but I as far I know the Buddha had in his mind a goal when he was practicing and he did not stop until he was sure it was achieved.
Here's a part from suthras itself:
"Two things O monks, I came to know well; not to be content with good states of mind so far achieved, and to be unremitting in the struggle for the goal. Unremittingly indeed, did I struggle and I resolved: "Let only my skin, sinews and bones remain; let the flesh and blood in my body dry up; yet there shall be no ceasing of energy till I attained whatever that can be attained with manly strength"
He in fact left his teachers and went on his own way when he knew his meditative practice was not helping him in his goal. Thus he left and started practicing on his own. I think he had a clear goal himself what he wanted to achieve: the end of suffering
"Come, bhikshu. The Dharma has been properly proclaimed. Live the holy life for the complete ending of suffering". (Quote from A Life of the Buddha by Sherab Chodzin Kohn)
Goal = Complete ending of dukkha (suffering or unsatisfactoriness).
In my humble view, nobody will be practicing Buddhism if dukkha (unsatisfactoriness or suffering) was not present. What will be the point? The aim of the practice, as I see it, is to reduce and eventually extinguish dukkha.
Meditation is only one of the several factors of the practice, viz. the Eightfold Path. It probably makes more sense to say the Eightfold Path (not just meditation) is linked to the above aim which happens to be a part of the Four Noble Truths.
In the beginning, all that you really want is to out run suffering. That is understandable when you feel like you are on fire.
After some small acquaintance with your own Buddha Nature, it becomes more like a love affair. You simply cannot get enough. : ^ )
Warm regards,
S9
Ilias, I advice you to get a copy of the book "Mindfulness, bliss and beyond" by Ajhan Brahm. Please don't think I am doing a promotion here
They are coming from a bhikku who has embraced the forest meditation tradition coming from the Buddha's days and who is believed to be enlightened or at least achieved 1 of the jhanas so I believe you can get some important input from the book. I like this book because it not only explains the meditative practices but it also addresses a lot of other things where we have doubts on. I can mail you the first few chapters which I have in pdf format if you like so you can decide whether to get the book or not later
Hi S9
One can indeed feel a kind of an 'adrenalin' rush in the beginning, especially when one's life is turned around for the better. Can't fault you on this one
With kind regards,
Sukhita
"The goal of this meditation is beautiful silence, stillness, and clarity of mind. If you can understand that goal, then the place to apply your effort and the means to achieve the goal become much clearer. The effort is directed to letting go, to developing a mind that inclines to abandoning. One of the many simple but profound statements of the Buddha is that “a meditator who makes letting go the main object easily achieves samadhi,” that is, attentive stillness, the goal of meditation (SN 48,9).1 Such a meditator gains these states of inner bliss almost automatically. The Buddha was saying that the major cause for attaining deep meditation and reaching these powerful states is the ability to abandon, to let go, to renounce."
But in order to achieve this goal you will have to let go of the goal itself too, otherwise it wouldn't make sense? That's what I meant with my other post; you will start to judge your meditation and judge events that (you think) bring you closer to or further away from enlightenment.
However, I think the answer lays somewhere in the middle, because without setting any goals or wanting anything, life would be impossible
I hope you read the entire book. I found it very insightful. May I know the question that you have for which you couldn't find an answer in the book please? Maybe it's something I haven't even thought about
The question I'm asking myself is how you can avoid clinging to this 'Buddhist goal' (enlightenment / the end of suffering) during meditation, in order to prevent yourself from making judgements on the events that happen during the meditation?
oooh glad you decided to read it
As you say it is quite possible to judge the way we progress during meditation thus disturbing the whole process. It's addressed there in the book as well. It happens in almost all stages to everyone. For example, it is said that when a person sees a nimitta for the first time what most meditators do is they get excited or even scared and then the nimitta vanishes. It's a normal reaction.
There is no other way to overcome this but through careful practice as far as I understand. Taking the same example, when a meditator encounters the nimitta for say many times they learn to stabilize and leave it alone thus allowing the nimitta to blossom. That is all part of the practice.
As for keeping an ultimate goal like: ending suffering. I don't think that will disturb your meditation whatsoever. We know our goal, we work towards that but when we sit in meditation, we meditate rather than fantasizing about the goal. A clear goal tells you where you want to go and what you have to do to go there.
Think on this, if you will.
Trying not to have a goal, IS a goal. It is a little like a dog chasing his own tail, round and round…or it is circular.
I think that what they were alluding to is being receptive.
Smiling reply,
S9
Choice is natures way of saying "Yes" to life. "Yes", is a spontaneous function of our life force.
Peace,
S9
Thus if one has truly progressed, we would expect that where previously sad and depressed, one is now less so; where previously selfish, one is now more giving; where previously defensive, secretive, and guarded, one is now more open and self-assured. Worry and anxiety should be reduced. Objective humility should replace conceit. Instead of recurrent thoughts of anger and "getting even" one is more forgiving and at peace with the world.
It is not what one have gained that is important but rather what one have diminished, namely, greed, hatred, and delusion or rather the end of craving/tanha.
Kama tanha - sense desire
bhava tanha - sense of wanting to become something other than what you are
vibhava tanha - sense of want to get rid of something
Ultimately I think it is the unconditional acceptance of what is or surrender into the moment.
"It is what it is"
Slight alternation to your definition here if I may, Bhava in pali and Bhavaya in my native language is "existence" or "life". "Thanha" is greed. Thus, "bhava thanha" is the greed to be born, to exist. "vibhava tanha" is addressed for the nihilist who believes that life ends after death and thus the greed to enjoy it as much as possible before they die. Thus Bhava and Vibhava thanha addresses something a bit more deeper than what you specified.
P: Thus if one has truly progressed, we would expect that where previously sad and depressed, one is now less so.
S9: I have a friend who keeps asking me, “Do you think that this is because of progress on the path, or just maturity? Sometimes it is difficult to know which, don’t you think?
Then too, I believe that the human mind is self-correcting, in this way. If we touch something hot and get burned, chances are that we will stop doing that act.
There is always what is called ‘Enlightened Self Interest,’ a philosophical term meaning that you can see your best interest beyond the immediate, as a Hedonist might, (“Grab as grab can.”)
So, in this way (ESI) you would find your own happiness is increased when you treat others well, (AKA friendship and love or even productive employees) .
Lastly, I believe the Buddha was teaching us to look more closely and deeply, in order to Clarify. He did this (on one level) simply because the outcome of such an endeavor would be increased sanity. No ‘hokus pokus’ in that.
I am in no way denying here that, when you look deeply enough, that same Clarity IS Liberation. But, I also believe that we dwell upon out acts (good or bad) way too much. Perfection of the ego self is not synonymous with Liberation.
Warm Regards,
S9
The Fire Sermon
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Gaya, at Gaya Head, with 1,000 monks. There he addressed the monks:
"Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye -- experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain -- that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging and death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, and despairs.......
"Seeing thus, the instructed noble disciple grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.....
"Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is depleted, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.' "
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of the 1,000 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.
Progress on the path or maturity is progess of insight.
To feel better.
Thanks for that little tale about the Buddha. I really enjoyed it.
There are people who are sensitive enough to see auras. They say that these auras appear like flames of different colors.
I have witnessed an aura or two, myself.
This is not something that I do often, or on purpose. But it does seem to be the case that we are on fire, the fire of constant motion.
Peace,
S9
I believe you're just joking. Anyway here it goes:
The fires of passion, hatred and delusion can be completely cooled and extinguished. Not only is the Fire Sermon of great significance because of the extinguishing of the three fires by the power of wisdom, but it is also accorded great weight by virtue of the fact that, during its delivery, all one thousand listeners were enlightened.
I see all of finite world as a fire burning, (AKA in constant motion.) All of becoming is in motion, (AKA changing) all passions are is motion, or in other words, the passions are incomplete in some way, and therefore yearning towards wholeness and satisfaction.
Yearning IS suffering.
I really did enjoy your story. : ^ )
How do you see the fires being extinguished?
I personally see them being extinguished by a lack of fuel. Their fuel was our very own identifying with them, and feeding into them by taking them seriously. It IS wisdom to see that these passions are empty of any real significance.
Namaste,
S9